Hotrodding the GS

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Poolside, Nov 18, 2010.

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  1. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Now I don't want this to come off wrong or be misinterpreted etc. But you guys do know that Poolside designs these systems, from the ground up, right?

    He knows about this stuff from the inside out because in order to design a functional EFI system you have to know what to expect from the inputs, and how those inputs represent/reflect reality.

    That being said he also hasn't taken the time to write up a complete description of everything he talks about. So he condenses the explanation, which also leaves out a huge amount of info. To design a system as complex as an engine management computer, and write the digital code to make it work, requires that you understand how it functions under all possible operating conditions, and all possible (and not possible) failure mode conditions, while still operating safely and passing all regulations including emissions.

    So in other words, what he's posting is coming from a degree of understanding which is beyond what he has written about here in this thread. There simply isn't time to attempt to lay it all out in readily understandable terms. Even the effort to explain it techno jargon would be an enormous undertaking, but then many simply wouldn't understand it then either. And what would be the point in that?

    And again I hope that this doesn't come across as being snobbish etc. but he really does grasp this shit to a level and a degree, all the way down to the nit picking details, because well that's what it takes.

    JJ
  2. wrysingfeenix

    wrysingfeenix Dust off those ashes

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    In addition to having the patience of a frickin' saint?
  3. '05Train

    '05Train Mind is not for rent

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    JJ, I can only speak for myself, but I'm really pleased with what Poolside's created. No antipathy about that on my part, I can assure you.

    I understand how fuel injection works, I understand how the IICE Air works, and I'm glad that Roger posted his chart to clearly illustrate that.
  4. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Yeah there is that too :lol3

    JJ
  5. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Yeah I understand.

    But I was attempting to point out that there is a major difference between understanding how they work and what it takes to design and make a system work from the ground up. And I too, thought I knew what was going on inside the unit as well, until he started to explain the specifics to me. I wound up throwing most of what I thought I knew, out the window.

    And during all of this I'm furiously figur'n on how to 'splain all of this without sounding like a know it all, because I know just a little bit more than just enough to be dangerous. Which is doubly precarious.

    JJ
  6. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <table border="0" cellpadding="5" width="650"><tr><td>I don't know, I'm pretty sure all you folks are the saints. Putting up with these delivery and development times and all. It means a lot to me I tell you what.
    </td></tr></table>
    <BR>
  7. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    I don't know, you're a lot better than the average Marketing division.&#8194;:evil

    <BR>
  8. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Well I couldn't throw out any of the marketing knowledge to make room for the inner workings on the EFI, so I had to compromise and throw out all the old EFI info along with purging some other stuff to make enough room but I can't remember what else I tossed anymore&#8230; I think. :confused

    Well no, that's not right either&#8230; :hmmmmm

    It's all just a big blur now&#8230; :huh :lol3

    JJ :evil
  9. Mr. Fisherman

    Mr. Fisherman PROUD 2B Riff Raff!

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    :clap 205 :clap205 :clap 205 :clap

    In other news I still like mine but my fuel economy seems inversely proportional to my fun twist mechanism... That is all. having way too much fun on vacation to do math or even remember where the recorded data is at to do the math with. Winning! :lol3
  10. ghostrider1964

    ghostrider1964 Edumacated Red Neck

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    What is the latest on IICE COOL?:evil
  11. DriftDragon

    DriftDragon Wanderer

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    I thought there was a way for the user to change the settings on the device somehow using a computer or something but maybe I misunderstood. I was wondering if that guy that was not seeing the expected results had somehow changed something or his particular device was faulty. However the devices are electronic components right? They sometimes fail or are faulty right?

    I am a software architect and follow the mantra of trust but verify. A key part of my job is isolating issues which usually means making sure the individual parts are doing their respective jobs. I thought that surely there is a way to give the device a given input and see that it is in fact modifying that signal on the output as expected. Such a test would certainly rule out issues with the device doing it's job correctly and point to issues with his bike using those modified values properly.

    Anyway, I was just curious. I am always curious if nothing else, lol.
  12. DriftDragon

    DriftDragon Wanderer

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    Oh wait, I see... changing the setting is done with jumpers. I was guessing settings were changed by sending commands to the device. I was not on this thread when I posted... I take it someone moved my post over here or I got confused about the thread I was in. I was posting in response to the guy whining about his devise in the vender section... lol.
  13. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    That's it DD, the jumper changes between 4 different settings. One setting is the stock Air Temp Sensor, the other three settings use IICE Air components. It is highly unlikely that any of the four sensors (1 on the bike, and 3 in the IICE Air) are not working, let alone all of them.

    I'm local to the guy you're referring to. We'll be getting together at some point so I can take a look at the IICE Air, and his bike. I'm bringing a GS-911 and a netbook.

    <BR>
  14. DriftDragon

    DriftDragon Wanderer

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    So I read the techno posts a bit closer and am much more edumacated now... but all that did was giv eme more questions... lol. By the way, the tech explanations are great!

    The one thing that was a little vaque was your answer on the Power Commander... So I still wonder... does a power commander conflict with the ICEAir or would it still make sense to use a power commander as well? If I understand it right the power commander could be used to add additional fine tuning to what the ICEAir does? I ask because I am considering an after market exhaust and see some advising to get a power commander as well to take advantage of the exhaust. However I also heard it's better to let the onboard computer adapt to the new exhaust on it's on so I am getting conflicting info. The onboard system does do some internal tuning over time right?

    Or is it that the Power Commander works mostly in the steady throttle function area? I am curious which of the functional areas the power commander plays a role in.

    One other question of curiosity... not that it's too essential but I noticed the box for tip out was not colored... does IceAir not impact that function?
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator

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    My IICEE-AIRE continues to perform very well. :thumb

    It's especially appreciated for engine-lugging lane-splitting on local freeways.
  16. motomandan

    motomandan Been here awhile

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    Any word on when they are shipping ? I sent a p.m. no response. Mine has been sitting on waiting on parts for over a month with no update?
  17. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    Thanks Andrew! It does work nice for lane-splitting and other low-RPM quick response work.

    <BR>
  18. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <table border="0" cellpadding="5" width="650"><tr><td>Not much to tell really, Motoman, from yesterday's post in the Vendor thread.

    I have a good-sized block of time available. During that time I'll be at the bench building IICE Airs. Like right now for instance, I've been down here since about 10am. I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress.
    </td></tr></table>
    <BR>
  19. EKinOR

    EKinOR Been here awhile

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    OK, I have some performance related questions on my 2002 R1150GS. It has 42k miles and the valves were adjusted and TB sync done at 38k miles, along with an oil change. I put new Autolite 3923 plugs (.035 gap) in 1k miles ago.

    1) It's hard starting when cold. It takes at least two 4 second cranks to get started, and sometimes three or four attempts. Once warm, it fires right up. What might be the cause of this?

    2) After a cold start, I usually let it warm up to one, sometimes two bars. Invariably, the first time I accelerate on to the road, it stumbles and lags for a second, then "catches" and off we go. It does not do this when warm. Ideas on this? Is it related to #1?

    3) I have the typical low RPM surge. I've played around with different configurations, including factory CCP, Steptoe jumper, no CCP, connected O2 sensor and disconnected O2 sensor. Right now, I'm running no CCP and the O2 sensor is disconnected, but it doesn't seem to help. I reset the Motronic by pulling the fuse for 5+ minutes, between each change. After I put the 3923 plugs in, it seemed to help some.

    Other than these things, it runs great. Mileage, on E10, is between 36 and 41 MPG. Often, I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle, but It's better on the highway (as I would expect) I haven't been able to correlate a mileage difference with the various CCP/O2 combinations I've tried. Overall, the mileage seems a bit on the low side.

    Lastly, if I roll off the throttle quickly, it decelerates hard. I believe this is caused by "overrun fuel cutoff." Can this be improved?

    I'd love to fix the surging and increase the mileage, too. I have an Ice Air on order - will it help with any of the above issues?
  20. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    While the description of the state of tune or disconnected devices is interesting, but confusing to me, do you have an IICE Air on this bike?

    Just a WAG...but too many "mods" or tweaks and it can be very hard to determine what is causing what to happen or not happen..the cause and effect links can be impossible to follow.

    If you have specific performance 'problems' I would take the bike back to stock and add or substract one device at a time. Introduce only one variable and then re-test. Return to stock and try cranking in another variable...you get the idea.
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