Hotrodding the GS

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Poolside, Nov 18, 2010.

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  1. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Your experience with the carbureted small-block chevy is relevant. It probably ran with an AFR in the 11.5 to 13.0 range. From there to the 14.7 we run, the exhaust temperature gets 50-100F higher (estimated). Our bikes start out at 14.7, which is roughly peak EGT. I've richened my mixture across the board so have cooled EGT somewhat. It may be that future IIce products have that effect too. We'll have to wait to hear.
  2. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    I got this from Wikipedia...my kind of Readers Digest information.:D
    <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; VISIBILITY: visible; mso-wrap-style: square" id=Picture_x0020_1 alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025"><v:imagedata o:title="0" src="file:///C:\Users\Phillip\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
    <o:p></o:p>"A stoichiometric mixture unfortunately burns very hot and can damage engine components if the engine is placed under high load at this fuel&#8211;air mixture. Due to the high temperatures at this mixture, detonation of the fuel air mix shortly after maximum cylinder pressure is possible under high load (referred to as knocking or pinging). Detonation can cause serious engine damage as the uncontrolled burning of the fuel air mix can create very high pressures in the cylinder. As a consequence stoichiometric mixtures are only used under light load conditions. For acceleration and high load conditions, a richer mixture (lower air-fuel ratio) is used to produce cooler combustion products and thereby prevent detonation and overheating of the cylinder head."
    <o:p></o:p>
    I assumed that the IICE Air adjusted via the air temp sensor constants programmed into the settings to provide richer mixtures to help with throttle transitions under load to help with stumbling with BMW's OEM settings. My GSA is for off road use...so..on and off throttle under load is needed and transitions must be smooth...high ambient temps at low speeds, heavy loads [oil/air cooled] cause my engine temps to elevate...so yes, I am seeking more delicate and controlled use of throttle to stay hooked up and upright, while not self-digesting my motor due to excessive heat...so far the IICE Air has met those needs, more so in throttle control and less in reduced engine temps..throttle is less abrupt with IICE Air.
    <o:p></o:p>
    I too am eager to get the next two phases installed; the Smooth and Cool. Hope "cool" refers to temp!:wink:<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
  3. The Evil Twin

    The Evil Twin Boxer Freak

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    Just had the GS up on the dyno yesterday. Interestingly the AFR was consistently between 13.5- 14:1 at cruising speeds (40-80 mph). As a matter of fact, mostly between 13.5- 13.7. Only down low in the RPM (>3000) range did it exceed 14.5:1 . The peak probably being when the throttle opened abruptly.
    I have a full system waiting to go on and will be returning to retest. According to BMW, the EFI will not take any time to adjust, but I will ride through at least one tank first.
  4. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Most dyno runs are made at WOT so I guess your's were. Torque and Horsepower are then derived from the rate of acceleration. So you probably know, but I'll mention, that those AFRs are not what you would measure cruising at those speeds. For WOT acceleration, those AFRs are relatively lean.

    If your we're on a different type of dyno you could measure AFR under load at steady speeds. Even up to 100 mph my 1150 has gone into Closed Loop which means the AFR will be set by the transition point of your O2 sensor which is 14.7:1 in your case.
  5. The Evil Twin

    The Evil Twin Boxer Freak

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    They knew what I was looking for. Not just peak numbers, but overall conditions. Since this time of year is slow, we spent a decent amount of time in the roller. Luckily, since it is slow season, it only cost me what the tech cost the shop; $30.
    We ran at those cruising speeds for a couple minutes. 40-80mph in 4th 5th and 6th gear. Until it started showing 5 bars on the temp gauge, and then we let her cool down. WOT runs weren't much different but maybe by a couple tics. We did not do any cruise under 3k rpm.
  6. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    With a warmed up bike at those speeds and gears your afr should be 14.7:1 since the bike should be closed loop. I have tons of data on this. You have a working O2 sensor, right?
  7. The Evil Twin

    The Evil Twin Boxer Freak

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    Yep, the whole exhaust is stock so one in each header. The only possibility is that the sniffer was not far enough in the pipe. It would only go in about 4" or so. That shouldn't matter any.
    Looking at it on a larger screen than my tablet, though, it is actually closer to the 13.7- 14.1 range for cruising. Unfortunately, I don't know what gear was what.
  8. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    So I hear you saying that this test wasn't with the throttle fully open but at a cruise setting.

    It sounds like your tech was doing things right, but I can tell you for sure that unless you have your O2 sensors disconnected, once your throttle has stabilized and the engine is warm, your motorcycle will go closed loop and there the numbers will fluctuate around 14.7:1 plus or minues 0.2/0.3 AFR. If that didn't happen, either the engine wasn't warm enough or something else was wrong about the setup.

    Do you have any aftermarket electronics on the bike?
  9. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    As JJ said a couple of posts back, no, not really. But let me elaborate on that a little.

    The jumper on the IICE Air can be left on the -20°C setting. The internal thermistors track the incoming air temperature and maintain whichever offset the user has selected. This means that at the -20°C setting the ECU receives an Intake Air Temperature signal that is 20°C lower than actual.

    However, as you know the IICE Air is adjustable to any one of four temperature offsets. The adjustment capability is primarily for compatibility with our future products, and for extremes of ambient temperature. Extreme can best be described as barely tolerable for riding.

    All the above notwithstanding, the four jumper settings are also there because some riders really want the ability to make adjustments. At least a hundred various user posts prove that the old adage is true, namely that 'your mileage may vary'. And who am I to argue with that?

    <BR>
  10. 10Cup

    10Cup Long timer

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    Am I the only one who would like an answer as to when my order will ship? I can't even get the courtesy of a response from these guys! From what I see the order list hasn't been updated in months. They have had my money for over two months now. WTF ! I don't think getting a response is to much to ask.
  11. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    Lets meet up soon, you can use mine.

  12. 10Cup

    10Cup Long timer

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    Thanks Matt. Always the Gentleman. Really I just want a status update
  13. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    So here is my response.

    I don't know.
    Yeah I suppose that isn't 'manly' but it is the truth.

    Did you happen to see this post?

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20118418&postcount=603

    JJ


  14. (I^2)R/746

    (I^2)R/746 Rider

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    It's not the first time somebody has complained. This seems to be a major sticking point with this endeavor of yours. I have been waiting a couple of months as well. I don't think anybody is asking you to be "manly" they just want an idea. Preferably up front. I think you guys might really have something here but at this pace it's a dud.

    Have you considered outsourcing production? It's winter time and there's lots of smart folks on this board who probably wouldn't mind a little bench work. Perhaps have somebody make batches, send to you for QA, then you send out. Payment upon successful QA pass. There's one solution for you.

    I honestly think with a little production help, some strategic marketing, and a small investment you guys might have something with this. Even at a zero profit some help would free you to complete the design work on the rest of the product line while keeping a customer base and your name out there.

    Just trying to be constructive. I'm not throwing stones either: I own a small business servicing and installing generators and the like. I know how hard it is to find good help and what it's like to start from scratch. Good luck and hope to see my product this year.
  15. KCDakar

    KCDakar What are we waiting for?

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    Dagnabbit JJ! You made me read that post Again! Stop that. Reading is hard for me as it is. And you forcing me to reread an old post makes my head hurt! You need to stop taking your advertizingmentillteezering or whatever it is you do here way too serious. I mean really...:ddog


    If you need me I will be hanging out on Poolsides lawn with bated breath waiting to catch a glimpse of the master as he walks by the casement window late at night toiling away at his workbench...:raabia



    Ok, so truth be told, I won't be waiting on his lawn. I will be trying to figure out how to pump all the water out of my new underground silo I just bought. The last three owners couldn't figure out how to do it. Their problem was spending all their time reading the directions. I really got a screaming deal too! We all know the world is going to hell in a hand basket and I don't want to be caught with my pants down. So if you will excuse me, I have some work to do...:loaded





    .
  16. DriftDragon

    DriftDragon Wanderer

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    You know deep water dive opportunities in kansas are all the rage these days...
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator

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    It's worth the wait, I'm glad every day I ride the GS.
  18. darmahman

    darmahman "Illogically Deluded"

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    Join the club. I paid at least 3 months ago but don't expect it till Summer 2013. Seems there could be a problem if something happens in his life and can't finish them. He will leave a lot of people hanging.



  19. RomaDakota

    RomaDakota 29th scroll; 6th verse

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    Assessment from the air, I'd be hoping the drought continues.... :p
  20. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    Ok, let me take a look. You sent a Private Message at 7pm yesterday, and didn't receive a response by 8am today.

    I sent out an email to some folks in the PM queue today, I think you received one.

    <BR>
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