How important is 2 wheel drive

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by CBRider, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    That's exactly what I was thinking. I was going to write a big long post, but you took care of it in two sentences. I want 2WD, but only for the absolute most extreme situations.
    #21
  2. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy Claude,

    I think there is a viable market for a two wheel drive system for the GS sires of bikes, the problem as I see it is that anything now on the market puts it will beyond the means of the average GS hack pilot.

    I have followed the Aussie builds, with the sidecar mounted on the left getting two wheel drive is a MUCH easier and cheaper thing to do then for us who have the sidecar mounted on the right hand side.

    I really like my hacked GS but every time I have to manually push it backwards or turn around on a road because I don't want to chance getting stuck as it doesn't have two wheel drive, my Ural's are sitting the garage laughing the Russian ass-arses off.
    #22
  3. rebelpacket

    rebelpacket four-stroke earth-saw

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    As many others have said, its not needed. Until its needed.

    I only use it sparingly, usually to get me out of situations. Mud. Snow. Sand. When it IS needed, it works very well. I suppose its a lot of extra cost and complexity for those every-now-and-then situations. However, I prefer to dictate where I'm going to ride, rather than let me rig decide that for me. I don't turn around often.

    [​IMG]

    I should mention that it does put some added stress on the final drive, having the driveshaft moving about. If you plan on riding 60-65mph everywhere on pavement and only doing a few miles on gravel roads, I'd get a single wheel drive model. I don't go much above 55mph on pavement, and wherever possible, stick to fire roads.
    #23
  4. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy All,

    Barry and I were in one wheel drive up to this point. This was where Barry stopped and I put my rig into two wheel drive. Easy riding up to this point good solid snow to get a grip on, the snow was much softer where it got deeper in front of where we stopped.

    Because of the break in the tree cover more snow hit the ground ahead making it deeper, it was a fairly nice day so more sunlight had hit the snow making it softer in the drifted area ahead of us.
    [​IMG]

    As they say a picture is worth 10,000 words. In this photo you can see Barry's ( windmill ) rig is about a 100 or so feet behind mine. I decided to see if I could blast through the snow drift to get to the less deep snow on the other side of this area.

    Shift into two wheel drive, winder up, drop the clutch, dig through the snow down to the gravel and GO. Well go until the snow I was pushing lifted the front of the rig up to where it was skiing on the skid plate and packed up under the sidecar which eventually resulted in no forward movement.

    However, stuck as the rig was, I put the rig into reverse and backed it up under its own power with NO human being pushing involved.
    [​IMG]

    Look how the snow is packed up between the bike and the sidecar, and still the rig powered itself backwards out of this situation.
    [​IMG]

    As you can in this photo there is a DEEP ditch on the left side of the logging road, and a very steep LONG drop on the right side of the road. I wouldn't even consider taking a one wheel drive rig with out reverse into such conditions.
    [​IMG]

    Barry and I have a habit of riding in this type of environment, during this ride we probably used two wheel drive for a mile out of the 50 or so we spent on the logging roads, sometimes only for a distance of 20 feet but without it we would not have been able to continue to the point where we were forced to turn around. So the whole one verses two wheel drive AND reverse thing really boils down to how far do you want to go and how much physical labor do you want to expend doing it.
    #24
  5. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    I have about 250k miles on sidecars and probably 30K of that is off road. There are times I wish I had 2WD for the those adventurous spots on the trail.
    #25
  6. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Again all good points.
    The 1200GS bikes would be an easier conversion for 2WD than the earlier GS models for right mount sidecars.

    Those of us who have actually been in the push it back/ dig it out/ turn it around / find the shovel/ jack it up/ wonder how far it is to walk outa here/ it is getting dark soon/ I am a fool/ wish I would have listened to that little voice in my head/ should I laugh or cry situations can relate to the good points of 2WD and / or reverse. :D

    It is still amazing what even a one wheel drive outfit can do off road but knowing that one can engage another wheel would be a good feeling.
    My worst experiences with one wheel drive have been on steep uphills where you cannot maintain a decent speed. Shift weigth to get steering back / lose traction/ shift weight back yadda yadda. Then lets roll back and do a turn around keeping the sidecar on the downhill side if possible. LOL...Are we having fun yet?
    #26
  7. 4PawsHacienda

    4PawsHacienda Been here awhile

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    I've been taking a Ural swd on some logging roads recently, hate to think how my stupidity would be rewarded with 2wd.
    #27
  8. ReCycled

    ReCycled Been here awhile

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    This is similar to my experience. I would venture off road and do stupid things by myself when I had 2wd, I still off road with 1wd but I only do so when others are there to help push. :D
    #28
  9. SamRus

    SamRus Been here awhile

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    #29
  10. madeouttaglass

    madeouttaglass The AntiHarley

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    He needs five wheel drive.
    #30
  11. DirtDabber

    DirtDabber cultural illiterate

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    Think of the places he could go.....
    #31
  12. Agent Wayward

    Agent Wayward Been here awhile

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    No one has mentioned the downside of the handling character on the 2WD Ural. The sidecar wheel lead is totally different than that of the RWD Ural, this gives, (to my mind) quite unpleasant handling on the vast majority of roads.

    Also worth noting is that the 2WD Ural has no differential, so you cannot use the 2WD unless you are on a loose surface, if you do, transmission wind up will see you in the hedge.

    I don't own a Ural, so have no vested interest in either.
    #32
  13. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    Let's put it this way, since the invention of sidecar wheel drive (2WD) in both the Soviet Union and Great Britain in 1928, how many 2WD outfits have been built? 100,000 to 150,000. How many outfits have been built? Probably well in excess of thirty million. Is it needed? For most people, apparently not.
    #33
  14. EvilClown

    EvilClown Reality show stunt double Super Moderator

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    Not very and no.

    Momentum is your friend.:deal With the conditions you describe, even that won't be necessary.

    Pull the trigger and don't look back.



    [​IMG]
    #34
  15. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    "Need" vs. useful.

    My wife doesn't "need" a AWD car, but sometimes it is very useful getting to her patients homes in the winter, or when they live up in the hills on muddy dirt roads.
    Before she had it, sometimes I had to get up early and put chains on her car, sometimes she stayed home, or sometimes she passed them on to others more capable vehicles.

    99% of the time it isn't "needed", but that 1% can be a significant amount of time and effort saved if you have it, sometimes it can be very useful. All depends on when and where you ride.
    #35
  16. madeouttaglass

    madeouttaglass The AntiHarley

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    I agree that you probably don't "need" it. There is also the resale to think about. From what I've seen on ebay closed auctions and the various Ural forums the used 2WDs bring the extra money back when they're sold. The same can be said for rear Vs. 4 wheel drive trucks in most places.
    #36
  17. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    All things considered, cost, complexity, reliability, frequency of use, universality, etc, it seems a well designed electric motor assist for reverse and sidecar power is the best compromise for on and off road. Emphasis on well designed!
    #37
  18. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy YOUNZ,

    Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth, compared to the SIMPLE mechanical reverse and two wheel drive already built into the Ural, I fail to understand how adding something like a electric reverse and two wheel drive would be practical.

    Adding electrical components will only increase the chance of something going wrong when you need it most. Wires get cut or smashed, motors burn out, connections get dirty or corrode, you would have to have some sort of speed control, all these things would add complexity. Again like I said just my opinion.

    One of the things I like most about the Ural is its over all SIMPLICITY, it just works and if it doesn't work its easy to fix.
    #38
  19. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    Perhaps, the electric motor driving the the front tire? A knobby!:evil
    #39
  20. Sidecar Jockey

    Sidecar Jockey Been here awhile

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    I Have a 1 wheel drive 2003 Ural tourist. I drive it in the snow every change i get. I live in the Applacian mountains and the one wheel drive version has no trouble on twisty mountain roads covered with 3 inches of snow, as long as you have a good knobby pusher tire.

    I have done many stream corssings, and driven on some muddy rutty roads without getting stuck. I have turned around to avoid huge swampy sink holes though, so some common sense will get you a long way.

    With the exception of sand or really deep mud, you do not need 2 wheel drive.

    Like has been previously said, there is no differential, so the sidecar wheel MUST slip when 2wd is engaged. The drive ratio of the sidecar wheel is LOWER than that of the rear wheel of the bike, so if the sidecar wheel can't slip you will either drive in a circle or blow out your tranny. I know Ural owners that had the latter happen...

    If youre going to go mud bogging or ride through the desert, get 2wd. If not, save some money and get 1wd.

    I have 'dual sport' style DOT tires on my Ural, but I have a very aggressive full knobby on my spare wheel. That way i can change to my serious off road tire if I plan on getting really muddy. BUT, you have to plan ahead and switch tires BEFORE you get stuck...
    #40