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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tennyis, May 26, 2013.
Technically it's "press".
yea... ok. "press to turn" then for you. my msf instructor did indeed say "push" and you are the first that I recognize as saying "press". so be it... this could be a "you say toe mae toe, I say toe ma toe" type deal.
oh wait... a quick google reveals
I see the word "push" in there... not "press"
yep, tomato it is!
oops... I stand to correct myself. it does indeed use "pressed" in there once. push a few times, pressed once. good deal.
still irrelevant to the reality of the act itself for the most part.
they also say to push forward, not down ward. when I'm standing on the bike I push down. meh. seems to work for me... although I'm on that plateau and am waiting to start another upswing.
While I find that hard to believe, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, trust me, the MSF does not call it "push" to turn. Do you still have the black book you got when you took your class? Open it up and read page 21.
And if you don't still have your book (page 21): http://www.msf-usa.org/curriculummaterials/brc_handbook_vs71_noprint.pdf
maybe, and nope. not going to since I am not that interested in the nuances of the English language and really don't gaf about this particular push or press issue. regardless of the freaking word... it's sort of like whether you say "blow me" or "smd", the point and message is the same. btw this particular conversation is one small aspect of why I am not the most social person around. :huh
One thing to bear in mind is that statistically you're more likely to have an accident after the "newbie" period than during it. Many riders I know went down right after they started to feel comfortable.
It's definitely healthy to maintain a certain level of anxiety.
What may seem like semantics to you is an important difference for brand new students who have no concept of how to steer a motorcycle. "Press" does a better job of conveying the delicacy of the movement required to steer the bike than "push" does. And you can call it whatever you'd like, but since you were referencing something you learned in an MSF class, it seems wise to convey what was actually taught. And what is the four-part turning process everyone learns in their MSF class? "Slow, look, press, roll".
well hey that's cool. you stick with it! looking back at that little quote earlier I prefer the word "push" until you use the term "pushed". I prefer pressed over pushed. (as was used in the quote) pretty much interchangeable imho but I'm not a MSF Coach either. (nor do I desire to be)
I did enjoy one coach in particular... and he did say "push to turn". in fact I don't recall "Slow, look, press, roll" by any of them, although it's possible. for some reason the concept of "slow, look, push, turn" with looking through the turn being emphasized. but this is probably a great subject you guys can get together and discuss over some lemonade and cookies.
personally I like push over press. and pressed over pushed. (except for buttons of course. press a button, push a handlebar.) yay me! how about all those individuals that use "utilize" instead of "use"? omg how annoying, right?
btw that class was indeed a positive thing! good stuff for sure. I fully encourage anybody that wants to ride a motorcycle to take the MSF course. (and support having it as a requirement for a license) keep up the great work!
I can see the viability of that statistic. also agree, a "healthy" fear can be a valuable tool and asset. (unhealthy being a liability of course)
It takes a while to get comfy. I was instantly comfortable on the DR200 during my MSF class. It didn't have enough power to get me into trouble and the only thing it did in a hurry was stop. Once I bought my V-Star 650, I learned what those instructors were trying to teach. 38hp isn't much; crap, I've been on riding mowers with more gumption. But that 38hp to someone who's never ridden on city streets before feels a lot like 300hp. Snap the throttle, ride the brakes, oh $h!t I goofed the shift, nononono don't die athe... damn bike.
For the first 50-odd miles, I hated this bike. Previous owners hadn't taken care of it, I was all over the place, and we did not speak the same language. At times, I felt like a kid screaming at a fish because it couldn't climb trees. It took a little mechanical work, new tires, and probably 200 miles or so before we got into a rhythm. A classmate followed me leaving campus last term and later asked how I got a v-twin cruiser to shift like a sport bike. He didn't hear the BLAT-cut-clunk-BLAT shifting style from me. He didn't believe me when I said, "technique." Once you and the bike start speaking the same language, good things happen.
My advice is this: Sunday mornings at 5:30am, go. Almost no one is out that early on a Sunday, and you have ample room to screw up without doing much damage. Goofing shifts? Go for it. Hop the bike at the light? No one will get mad. Screw up your signal/mirror check/shoulder check/lane change order? No foul, and you learned from it. That's how I went from "I'm sellin' this POS money vacuum!" to "ohhhh holy hell is this fun!"
Question remains: how is Tennys feeling after the course? Are you still with us?
I recognize a lot of the stuff in your OP, back from the day's I started riding, 20 years ago.
We ( I and the guy's I ride with) still attend advanced riding classes every few years, it's fun, it keeps you sharp and hopefully helps to prevent accidents.
Like a few weeks ago. I was distracted and while riding 65mph hadn't noticed that the guy in front of me, had stopped to take a left turn. As breaking would not have saved the day, I swerved right and passed him on the right edge of the road (as did the two riders behind me, who also had missed what was going on) I thanked my angles for flying with me that time!
Interestingly, if you do a google search for "slow look push roll" it automatically corrects you and changes it to "press". Don't argue with google.
Maybe it's because you epitomize the typical pompous BMW ass.
that's more than likely due to how it is written in a document that is linked and quoted repeatedly.. not how people speak in person. (life off the internet)
yesterday I quoted from a window that was the first I noticed... there were others and when I was closing the various browser windows I made note of another I had opened yet not read. this one: http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.aspx?f=22&m=458209
here this MSF gentlemen (claiming to have taught MSF courses for 17 years at the time, so that would amount to 20 now if still teaching.) seems at a loss as to what word to "write" never mind speak in person. repeatedly using BOTH push and press when discussing the process.
like mentioned... language semantics. meh.
perhaps you can head over to his place with a glass of lemonade and plate of cookies to sit and address the issue.
on a side note, reading a bit of what he wrote I do recall that pushing down is not correct for riding. not something I heard at the course but something I did read somewhere (magazine I believe) also recall playing with that a bit while out n about, the only time I use "push down" is when I am standing up riding around. then it works fine and I will continue to play with all variety of techniques. like pressing my knee to the tank... (make note I did not say "push")
Google search for:
"slow look press roll" = 36,000 hits
"slow look push roll" = 153 hits
and best of all...
"slow look push turn" (like you claimed in this thread) = 2 hits (one of which is this thread).
Maybe your thick-headedness is really the reason you're so antisocial. I've already sent you the official MSF book, but while you have plenty of energy to continue to push your wrong-headed assertion, you have no energy to just read the book. Because if you'd spend just 30 seconds looking at the book, your argument would fall to pieces. Can't have that.
So has anyone heard from the OP?
I'm wondering how his course knowledge and comfort quotient are correlating.
He's probably been out shopping for a Hayabusa.
I have no idea how you think I give that much of a flying fuck about whether the official term to use is push or press. and I am in no way arguing about what is "official" in terms to what the MSF feels is the best word to use.
I am saying adamantly that I recall push being used, in person not in written form. don't like the link to the thread where the other MSF gentleman uses both push and press? that's fine... was just pointing out the fact that others also use the word "push". live with it, or get your panties in a bunch it's all the same to me.
that is pretty much "it" in regards to push or press from me.
now in regards to "anti-social"...
go back and read.. I said I wasn't in fact "anti" I just wasn't all that social. perhaps I miss the "push vs press" nuance, you miss this one.
people that insist on making huge issues out of little things like "push vs press" is one reason. in the "social" rides I have been on.... thankfully nobody was so freakishly anal about such things. nor could I see those personalities that I most closely associated with be of that nature. for that matter I hope to hook up with the one particular MSF coach at some point. he came across like somebody that I would relate to, while the others... while they were quite capable at their job of being a coach, not so much. this is how social aspects go and I am comfortable and accepting in that fact.
That's humorous given that you've got just as many posts on the subject as anyone else. All I did was give the official position according to the class you took, but you want to keep arguing about it. Funny indeed.
arguing about what?
what exactly is it that you think I am arguing about?