How Much Longer For Carburetors?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Murphy Slaw, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. Murphy Slaw

    Murphy Slaw Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,727
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    It seems thumpers are about the last bikes using carbs, and with the Tier 4 diesel (tractor) regulations on the verge of killing small farmers, I wonder how much longer the KLR, DR, etc will be allowed to use carbs?

    And, if dis-allowed, will certain models even survive, or just be dropped.

    These are strange days indeed.......
    #1
  2. achesley

    achesley Old Motorcyclist

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,484
    Location:
    Jennings, Louisiana
    About the only way I would buy a new KLR at present, is if, they did put FI on it. ;-)
    #2
  3. G600

    G600 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    466
    Location:
    Iceland
    You are right. The eco nazis are well founded with our tax money. And making progress.


    I do not want FI motorcycles. The day I am forced to ride a FI bike, I will stop riding.


    Why? I like thumpers. FI goes against everything I find practical and sensible. Take a simple and reliable design and throw in a lot of computers, pumps, injectors, sensors and you have the opposite.


    To me a FI thumper is just about the ultimate in stupidity. I had a XT660R this summer, nice bike to ride but FI. The more I learned about it, the less I liked it. It even had “tilt sensor” of some sort, just the thing to go bad in the middle of nowhere. I sold the bike and will not buy another FI bike.
    #3
  4. BuilderBob

    BuilderBob Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    76
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Well, I'm glad I already have my carbed thumper. I love my KLR 650. So simple. So capable. I'm more confident of it in boonies than I am in my GS. The KLR can be fixed with duct tape and bailing wire, the GS needs to come with a German engineer.

    That said, I do like my GS.

    I also have a WR250X (punched out to 290). I really like the FI on that bike. With all of the mods that I have done, it sure is a lot easier to dial it in with the PC5 & Autotune than it would be with needles and jets. Of course, the WR-X is more of an urban assault vehicle, and I'm never too far from civilization, and a tow if needed.
    #4
  5. Garp

    Garp Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,441
    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    Different Strokes for Different folks. If I want to run an open airbox and pipe on my KTM690 it's a 10 minute process to upgrade the FI system, no futzing with jets etc.
    #5
  6. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,629
    Location:
    Tejas
    Wow!...the carb vs. FI debate is about as bad as an oil thread.:lol3
    #6
  7. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Oddometer:
    146
    Location:
    West Chester, PA
    Your opinion is very valid and your points good. Simplicity trumps features when you're talking about long term reliability out in back country conditions. But your views are probably in the minority. I think the reason you're seeing more FI thumpers is because that's what people want! People demand more power on the same displacement with less routine maintenance! I don't think it's "eco-nazis" or some other imaginary boogeyman that's causing bike manufacturers to upgrade and modernize. I think it's just a capitalist market at work - more and more people demand more from their bikes than a carb can provide. Why aren't they making carb sport bikes anymore? Because a carb sport bike wouldn't sell, simple as that!

    Comparing a modern car to a FI thumper is like comparing a mountain bike and a GSXR - for me I'm relieved to be working on a FI thumper as opposed to a modern auto and I'm constantly praising yamaha engineers for their simplicity & intuitive design: recently I purchased the WR250R over larger cc carbureted competitors because for my life, FI is just more simple. The WR has a maintenance schedule like a street bike and posts speed numbers (0-60, 1/4 mile) like a late 80s Porsche 911 (not to mention most mid level modern sports cars). Honestly FI seems good enough for me!

    ...And this is how I tune my fuel map, with a 3 button controller. Talk about simplicity!
    [​IMG]
    #7
  8. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,910
    Location:
    Nashville TN, no chit, police state.
    Whoa is me... What will those that only buy brand new do?

    Re: Eco Nazi's... I wonder how much longer WE'LL put up with it? They neuter weedeaters too,,, with a small screen you can pull out of the exhaust port with a pair of pliers... And all for billions and billions a year in public and government funding.

    Otherwise, EFI is superior to Carb. And those that think the systems will be big, bulky and complex... Really need a new hobby b/c the EFI on cars have done NOTHING but get smaller smaller smaller and less complex.


    Though (the intrusive) OBD-II, depends on how you look at it.



    Same EXACT(!) Bore, Stroke, Cam, Heads, Valves, etc.

    Toyota 22R, 97hp.

    22R/E, 112-115 depending on who you ask...
    #8
  9. G600

    G600 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    466
    Location:
    Iceland
    No. The ever stricter emission regulation are driving carbs out, at least in Europe. In Europe we have new, stricter regulation every few years (Euro3, Euro4....) and flocks of "eco-nazis" and bureaucrats leading the way. I don't know how it is in the USA, but you probably are a little more sensible.


    Don't get me wrong, FI has its place for those that want it. It offers great flexibility and performance. But it does not compare to the carbs when it comes to reliability and simplicity. New is new ... but after a few years there will be failing electronics and all sorts of gremlins. Ask my friend with a FI 450 gasgas ´05 or ´06.
    #9
  10. Garp

    Garp Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,441
    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    So FI gives more power, better efficiency and reduced emissions. Damn those "Eco Nazis":rofl
    #10
  11. G600

    G600 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    466
    Location:
    Iceland

    Now that is clever. Not for me, but I see your point.
    #11
  12. strongbad

    strongbad Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    495
    Location:
    Idaho Falls, ID
    We are one battery breakthrough away from doing away with the internal combustion engine altogether. It won't be much longer.
    #12
  13. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,910
    Location:
    Nashville TN, no chit, police state.

    Your argument is just exactly like comparing the EFI system of a Toyota to that of a Lucas. Google Search: Lucas Prince of Darkness

    All EFI is, is sensors, connectors, wires and a ECU.

    Made properly all you'd have to replace is what the CEL tells you to... Dot dot dot, dash dash dash...
    #13
  14. G600

    G600 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    466
    Location:
    Iceland
    Yes. But it also transforms a simple and reliable fuelling system to a complex one. Definitely a bad thing for someone that rides in a remote place or simply wants things easy.
    #14
  15. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,910
    Location:
    Nashville TN, no chit, police state.
    Like those that represent that market share (-1%), I recommend they convert to Carb.

    Otherwise, just like off-roading (or those needing a REAL work truck, or non-club hunting) it's only a matter of time before that activity is on the endangered species list.


    Let a few riders litter or file a liability claim on the property owner and that'd be all she wrote of that. Otherwise their numbers do not represent a large enough share of a market to cater to them.
    #15
  16. Garp

    Garp Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,441
    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    Things move on, heck even Nascar uses fuel injection these days :D

    I consider FI to be simple and reliable at this point. It's easier for me to tune an FI bike, so that checks the simple box, and it's never left me stranded so it's reliable as well.

    For 2013 the Yamaha WR250R switches from Carb to FI. The price went up $100, but I doubt that is a direct consequence of the change, just the usual annual price increase.
    #16
  17. siyeh

    siyeh Lawn Nazi

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,733
    Location:
    Evansville, WI
    Dude, that seems extreme. You better get used to walking.
    #17
  18. XDragRacer

    XDragRacer Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,353
    #18
  19. BuilderBob

    BuilderBob Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    76
    Location:
    Central Florida
    #19
  20. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    19,773
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    to answer your question, i'd expect to see alot of newly FI bikes for 2013.
    yamaha did it with the xt250 and yet keep the same air-cooled motor and only added $100 to the price. sounds like a winner to me.
    #20