How to finish basement

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by jules083, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Commuter Boy

    Commuter Boy Long timer

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    One of the long term issues with foam slabs is that they shrink. If you want better long term coverage for the walls and floor, use sheets half as thick as you want and overlap the joints as well as tape them. That will give you a good moisture barrier.

    Dow makes a Wallmate board with channels cut for 1x4 furring strips if you want them flush, or you can put a 2/4 in there if you want them to protrude. Leave a gap at the bottom for water and drywall away to your heart's content.

    The Barricade floating subfloor system works well, you can also install it on top of the existing floor, or on top of other foam boards if you want more insulation. Dead simple to work with, and give you a base to put something else on top. It also has some channels to allow water flow underneath them, but it doesnt' hurt to keep easy access to a drain. If you get a small basement pipe burst type flood event, you can just pop them up and dry/replace them. http://www.ovrx.com/basement-flooring.html

    The above are what I did in my PNW basement, it's made a noticeable difference.

    Be prepared to invest in a dehumidifier no matter what.
    #21
  2. wolfhoundaddy

    wolfhoundaddy Been here awhile

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    I put hardwood floors over concrete using this method.
    Seal floor.
    Trowel roofing tar onto concrete, place plastic over it, spred another layer of tar on plastic. Lay down 3/4 " cdx. I use 1/4" drive pins to anchor the ply down.
    #22
  3. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    What about gluing the insulation up and then gluing FRP panels to it? Simple/ bright colored/ easy to clean/ and will not grow mold.
    #23
  4. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    Thanks. That's basically what I'm wanting to do, except I probably won't use the fiberglass. I don't think the cost, added wall thickness, and added time
    would be worth it. If I heated with something other than wood I may reconsider though.




    Good point, I'll double up on thinner sheets. Cost is the same either way, better to have the seams staggered.

    The barricade subfloor system looks exactly like what I want to do, except I was planning on just buying 4x8 sheets of everything instead of the little 2x2 they use. No water channels if I did it my way, although I'm not sure on how big of a difference they'd make.





    I'm not against that idea. Thanks. I'll look around for a local source, I haven't seen any at Lowe's. Home Depot is about an hour away, next day off I was planning on riding up anyways to look around.


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  5. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    I know the Home Depots around here carry it. They hide it near the trim isle. It usually is laying flat on the floor, pretty easy to walk right past it.
    Download the Home Depot app for your phone and it will tell you what isle has the panels.
    #25
  6. macintosh

    macintosh Adventurer

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    I'm living in cold climate and this does not really look as correct solution.
    Idea of insulation (at least where I live) is to keep dew point outside of building and walls warm and dry.
    Otherwise you are just heating air inside and hide those problems (dew point) behind insulation. They will come sooner or later back haunt you.
    #26
  7. Bart

    Bart Constant Lurker

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    In my experience, if you want to get rid of the dampness you need to eliminate the temperature differential between the block wall and the living space. That is what creates the condensation and hence the dampness. Frame insulate vapour barrier and finish with drywall or whatever you want. Provided you insulate the block from the inside temperature it won't condensate.
    #27
  8. squiffynimrod

    squiffynimrod maximum shrinkage

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    There's a Canadian home improvement guru called Shell Busey who's been around for ages. I followed his procedure when finishing a basement room and it worked out great. Here's a cut and paste from his site:

    "The proper way to insulate and finish inside concrete walls is in the following manner: Identify the outside grade level, and then transfer this measurement to the inside of the concrete wall. From that point, use a level and draw a line on the wall 6” above the grade line all the way along the interior of your concrete wall. This now becomes the height of your polyvapour seal – 6-mil polyethylene (available in 10’ widths). Spread a bead of acoustic adhesive along this line (acoustic adhesive is available at your local building supply store in tube form). This adhesive will stick your 6-mil polyethylene to the concrete. Apply the same adhesive down the inside of the concrete wall and out onto the floor. This stops any moisture emanating from the concrete to the wood studs. Build stud walls that are 1 ½” shorter than the actual wall height. This allows the walls to be tilted up and put into position and you can then screw them to the underside of your joists up tight against the concrete wall. Cut Styrofoam or polyurethane foam in blocks (1 ½” thick) and position them every 2 feet along the bottom of the stud wall. Pound a 4” common nail (it doesn’t have to be a concrete nail) through the bottom plate and the foam block and into the concrete, stopping when your hammer rings. The wall will remain in place because it is now screwed to the underside of the joist and nailed into the concrete floor. Now you are ready to prepare the wall for insulation. If there is a pony wall above the concrete, remove any polyvapour seal from this wall. Stack R12 insulation batts behind, lying on their side above the concrete wall and the joist above, thus covering the pony wall section if it exists. Put insulation batts in green garbage bags making insulation pillows. Put these “pillows” in the joist header areas (where the joist runs over the plate to the outside joist fascia). Run insulation batts between the newly studded wall from the joist line to the floor. Finally, take the extra polyethylene vapour seal that is lying out on the floor (the excess of the 10 ft. width) and bring it up around the studded wall as far as it will reach and staple it in place. Staple another piece of polyethylene from the top area onto the underside of the joist 12” out from the studded wall bringing it down the wall to meet the polyethylene coming up from the floor. Overlap them and seal with acoustic adhesive. You have now totally encased the finished interior framing wall and will prevent any moisture that may emit from the concrete to get into the wood fibre and/or insulation causing a musty odour. Proceed to drywall or panel. Now no moisture will ever get near a wood fibre. If there is ever a crack in the wall or floor, the moisture will run up against the polyethylene, run back in behind and out onto the floor and will be identified at the floor line rather than up in behind your panelling or drywall. - See more at: http://www.askshell.com/Newsletter-365-Basement-Finishing#sthash.wwWJXZyI.dpuf"
    #28
  9. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    The XPS sheeting as shown above (do use multi-layers; do use either UL181 or flashing tape across seams) will provide a better moisture barrier with less work and chance of failure. If you need space to run electrical lines or plumbing then use a stud wall, otherwise Thermax glued directly to the XPS or polyisocyanurate foam on the XPS with furring strips and 5/8" "no paper" (or "green board") drywall. Forget about bagged fiberglass for the rim joist areas - use roughly-cut blocks of 2" polyisocyanurate foam board (also R12) to fit the space and foam-in-a-can around the perimeter. Fast and foolproof.
    #29
  10. sTE610vE

    sTE610vE Long timer

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  11. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    That's what I keep hearing.

    Too much work and fussing around.

    I have zero interest in finishing the ceiling. All that would do is make me more work and money with zero benefit. Perhaps even a loss of benefit, unless I also re-do all of my ductwork beforehand


    I'm just going to start gluing EXP sheets up. Stud wall screwed in the block behind that, drywall on the studs. Whatever doesn't get done this winter will get done the next, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not busting my ass all winter over it, nor am I missing out on any part of riding next summer for it.
    #31
  12. jgreer916

    jgreer916 Adventurer

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    We finished our basement off a couple of years ago and did what you are looking at. 2" of hard foam over the walls, then we did put up framing and fibreglass batts. No moisture issues, and the space is quite a bit warmer. Rather than painting the floor we stained it with coffee grounds, copperas and water. Look here - http://www.stainedfloor.com/Iron_Recipes.html basically you stain the floor with rust. We sealed the floor with a clear sealer from Lowe's.

    Pics of our sealed floor here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgreer916/5278912743/

    -john
    #32
  13. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    That looks sweet, I think I want to try it. Thanks a lot for the tip.

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  14. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    Finally got started. Decided on doing 1" sheets then overlapping them rather than 2", since it will be the same price except for glue. The 1" is much easier to cut anyways. Still haven't made up my mind on using fiberglass on top of that, but I'm thinking probably not. Either way I doubt I get that far this winter, I'll be happy just to get something done. It'll be riding season in a few months...

    [​IMG]

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  15. gsweave

    gsweave Yinz, blinkers are on, since 05

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    Glad you changed your mind for 2" foam. It would have been overkill.

    Still would stop and buy 5Gallon of Dryloc and paint block.
    #35
  16. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    For every person that said to use paint another person said not to. I don't know what the right answer is, but I didn't use it. One issue I heard off was the paint-to-block bond failing over time anyways. Since the insulation is glued, then any paint issue becomes a bigger problem.

    Either way through, my dad's basement is painted with water sealing paint and it doesn't seem to do anything. Any leaks just bubbles the paint off and leaks anyways.

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  17. gsweave

    gsweave Yinz, blinkers are on, since 05

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    Has not been my experience with dryloc.. But, you are living with it, I understand your choice.


    Look at 3M Hi-strength spray adhesive. Great for your application http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-17-6-oz-Hi-Strength-90-Spray-Adhesive-90-24/100151277
    #37
  18. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    If I remember I'll stop by his place and get a picture of the interior wall. It's pretty obvious the paint isn't doing anything.

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  19. StoneAgeMan

    StoneAgeMan Wanderer

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    The pics that we need are also the "before application".:D If the wall is the least bit scaly, dusty, chalky, powdery, or in any other way not a perfectly clean and well-attached (think resistant to wire brush) concrete, any paint will fail to perfectly adhere. With Drylok and it's ilk, perfection is more important than with "just" painting bare concrete.

    The Drylok style paints will also fail if there is "too much" outside water pressure, around 11-12 psi is all it will take and that's not much when dealing with water columns (think scuba-diving). Sometimes the water is actually moving through the ground and the house is in the way, very high pressures can happen.

    I suspect Drylok only lasts 12-15 years in the best of cases when dealing with active water (vs. just a damp wall in the rainy season). So removing the old Drylok stuff and reapplying is one "solution" to stop the water, for maybe another 8-12 years.

    Sorry for the hijak as the OP isn't the one with the weeping wall.

    StoneAge
    #39
  20. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    FWIW the recommended R value of insulation for walls in your climate (Ohio) is R-10/13 for below-grade and R-20 for above-ground walls (and R-10 for slab floors, but too late...) according to the DoE. At R-6 per inch of most foam board products, that means about 4" on your walls (yours look to be mostly above ground) so you could layer 1 course of 2" board on top of your 1" and add a final 1" layer. Actually, if it were me I'd put up 2 courses of 2" since you have the open space. Remember that insulating material is usually the cheapest building material (considering all materials used) but is the most sensitive to proper install (e.g., high labor costs) so since you are providing the labor, go for a "best industry practice" since you have the chance.
    #40