How to get proof of ownership for a bike w/no title

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by D0N, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Dieseldog13

    Dieseldog13 Adventurer

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    Do you get your bike insured through a Vermont agent or in your own state?
  2. windburn

    windburn Long timer

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    Vermont is very responsive, last week I got my paper work back with instruction to send $12 and be sure to sign the application. I responded the same day and today I received my transferable registration and license plate.
    Thank you Vermont. And thanks for the folks here for sharing the information.
    :clap
  3. Fred_Garvin

    Fred_Garvin n00b

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    Just found this thread through the internets and really appreciate the feedback you've all done.
    I'm also in Colorado and facing a bonding process. I have two questions:

    1. I purchased the bike in New York while working in the area. It has not been registered since 1982. Would I be able to use the original notarized bill of sale from the seller in New York?

    2. It's yet another 200cc 1966 scooter, so I would NOT have to do any type of vin verification?

    3. The check would be for $44 + the 6% of the $725 I paid (43.50) - $87.50 total?

    Thanks in advance guys!
    FG
  4. HondaBobber

    HondaBobber n00b

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    Hey everyone i'm a bit confused on how to do this can someone explain it step by step for me? This is my situation, i have a 1982 honda cb650 bobber thought i bought (clean, just no title) without a bill of sale. The VIN comes in clean and its just i have no bill of sale to honestly prove i even bought it. I live in virginia before you say it varies by state. Can i still do this without a bill of sale? If i need one im honestly gonna probably forge the buyers signature, i know its not the brightest thing to do but im getting desperate. How do i know how much to pay too?
  5. SilkMoneyLove

    SilkMoneyLove Long timer

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    First, you will need to "find" the bill of sale.
    Honestly, hit the DMV.vermont.gov and follow the instructions. You will need the Bill of Sale.
  6. HondaBobber

    HondaBobber n00b

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    Hey believe it or not i actually did get the bill of sale just yesterday!
    i sent the guy a bill of sale to just sign and i recieved it back yesterday so im good for that.
    Do i physically mail it to them? If so can i send a copy of it not the actual?
  7. Dieseldog13

    Dieseldog13 Adventurer

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    Soooo,
    Where do you insure the bike, through a Vermont Insurance Agency or an agent in your state?
  8. windburn

    windburn Long timer

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    I did not have a bill of sale but I had payed for the bike with a check so I used the bank copy of the cancelled check that showed the previous owner signature. The application asked for the information on the previous owner I filled in the information but did not sign his signature. The cancelled check with his signature is a legal proof of the transaction.
  9. Turkeycreek

    Turkeycreek Gringo Viejo

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    I went through the Colorado bonded title in 2003 or 04. It was on an out of state purchase where the Minnesota title was lost in the mail (actually mailed to a bad address.) The only documents I had were a fax copy of the original title and a bill of sale.

    Had I been able to track down the seller, he could have gotten a duplicate for me but he moved. It involved verifying the VIN at the big cop shop at Camp West George in Golden, buying the bond from a specialized insurance company then getting the title at the main state DMV offices, not the local offices. It was relatively easy except for the bad attitude of the very nasty state cop doing the inspection. It took some running around and the bond was maybe $100 or so based on the value of the bike.

    That was eight or nine years ago so things may have changed. Good luck
  10. Mollybro

    Mollybro n00b

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    Here's my situation:

    I live in FL. I had a title, but it was lost before I registered the bike, which is a 1981 CB750C. I have tried contacting the previous owners for a Bill of Sale (they moved), but I have a friend that said he'd draw one up for me if they couldn't.

    Now, will this VT trick work in my case? What all do I need? Thanks and sorry in advance. :freaky
  11. Fred_Garvin

    Fred_Garvin n00b

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    I see the Vermont DMV cashed my check, so looks like I'm getting a new plate shortly :)
  12. motomike14

    motomike14 Thumper Crusader

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    Just in case, run the vin through theirs and Florida system. If you are good there, then yes, you'll be good.

    On the Vermont DMV site, they actually have a bill of sale template. This is what I used; I had a similar issue after I bought a bike on a whim and didn't really get a good bill of sale, so, had a friend of mine sign it as the "seller" (this is no different than using broadway title or any other similar company).

    Two things; make sure you fill in the correct amount to send (sales tax on the sale OR sales tax for lowest retail value by the book, look it up). And, make sure all the papers are signed in the right spots.

    I've had a Vermont tag on a vintage bike for 8 months now, and no issues. I haven't tried to transfer it to Florida, though. Not sure how their DMV system will deal with a bike with a current out of state registration, but no physical "title."
  13. amedina88xx

    amedina88xx n00b

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    Hey everyone,

    New to this board,new to riding in general. I went with my gut a month ago and purchased a 2005 Kawi ex250 off of Craigslist. The owner was decent and open about the bike issues. He handed me a title that was not in his name but the
    previous owner. It wasn't until my relative messed up the odometer reading on the back that I had to seek out the previous owner for a duplicate title. I am dieing to get on this bike.

    So Upon searching I see this somewhat active thread about the Vermont loophole.
    I went through every page and need to know some things specific to a newer bike.
    Also keep in mind, I live in NJ and purchased the bike from NY(Ny title)

    Will I need to get a vin verification? (I am not allowed to drive without a plate , and can not move the bike from my property)

    Can I just send the bill of sale and the original title (which the original owner and myself signed)?

    I can not get in touch with the original owner and I am puzzled on how to get this thing on the road.
    any help will be appreciated.

    The vin is clean, the title is not acceptable in NJ due to the error on the odometer reading, but it clearly states the ownership and transfer of.
  14. luniz7

    luniz7 Adventurer

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    Probably wont work because technically the bike is still titled in the dudes name in the system. So therefore by law its still his...
  15. luniz7

    luniz7 Adventurer

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  16. amedina88xx

    amedina88xx n00b

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    Ok, regardless of whether anyone knows if I need the Vin verification to get the registration ,

    how am I supposed to get a vin verification when I can't ride the bike to the DMV (without plates) in NJ?

    Will my bike be seized for not being registered or plated on the road?

    I am worried my insurance, and title(with error on back) will not be enough.

    thanks in advance
  17. luniz7

    luniz7 Adventurer

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    I would haul it there in the back of a pickup:wink:
    The bike will not be seized.
    You dont even need insurance or the title to get a Vin verification.
  18. der_saeufer

    der_saeufer ?איפה בירה

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    OK people, read the Vermont DMV's instructions. :deal

    There are three rules in play here: bikes under 300cc are never titled, nothing 15+ years old is titled, but bikes over 500cc require a VIN verification even if they're not titled.

    This leads to four possibilities:

    1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.

    2) bike >300cc but <500cc and 15+ years old: no title, no VIN verification. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. This small category would apply to a 1976 KZ400, for example.

    3) bike >500cc and 15+ years old: no title, but VIN verification required. Send bill of sale, complete application, VIN verification form and fees, get registration and license plate. Exception: if you have a VT registration for this bike in any previous owner's name, the VIN verification is waived. For this purpose, the previous registration can be expired. You do have to submit a copy in lieu of the VIN verification. A 1981 CB750 fits into this category.

    4) bike >300cc and 0-14 years old: these bikes are titled in Vermont. You'll need a title to get anywhere if your machine fits this category, and if you have the title, you can probably go through your own state. Should you choose to title in Vermont anyway, you'll need a VIN verification in addition to the properly endorsed title from the seller.

    Just in case anyone is wondering, for cars there are only two possibilities: either it's 15+ years old or it's not. Cars 15+ years old never need a VIN verification; that special requirement is only for motorcycles. Cars 0-14 years old are titled.

    Also worth noting is that Vermont has started to bust people trying to register dirt bikes. If your bike was not originally manufactured for street use, prepare to be asked to show that the bike is street legal. They go by the VIN, so factory dualsports won't be an issue since they've always been street bikes in the eyes of USDOT.

    Tax: Sales tax is based on the purchase price or NADA's New England price guide, whichever is higher. DMV will give book values over the phone. In my experience, whether they check the book value is hit or miss; they seem more likely to check on mailed applications than ones submitted in person. If you want to fight over the value, the appraisal has to be done by a Vermont licensed dealer, so if you're not close to Vermont, you're essentially left to pay up or shut up. Per ride4321 below, the minimum value for tax purposes is now $500, so you pay tax on $500 ($30 at the current 6%) if you paid less for the bike.

    Inspection: Vermont does not suspend registrations for lack of an inspection certificate like Mass (and possibly NY?) does. If you ride in Vermont on Vermont plates without an inspection sticker, you can be cited. If you ride in a state without safety inspection, you're good to go. If you ride in a state other than Vermont that does have safety inspection, check your local laws. I believe NH and Maine have specific reciprocity with Vermont and could (in theory) cite you; in other states I have no idea--we don't have that shit out West and I don't live in Mass anymore. :D

    Insurance: This is between you, your insurance company, and any cop that happens to stop you. Vermont does not use an insurance database to suspend registrations of uninsured vehicles like a substantial number of states do. Riding without insurance is illegal in 45+ states (including Vermont), though, so going without is an extremely bad idea. Get insurance. Your insurance company doesn't care where the bike is tagged.

    Over and above all of this, it's generally illegal for a resident of a state to register his vehicles elsewhere. If you get stopped by your local gendarme with Vermont plates and can't talk your way out of the ticket for not registering your bike in your state, don't come crying to me about it. Check those light bulbs, people!

    ETA: if you live close enough to Vermont to visit one of their DMV offices, just do that. They can do VIN checks there, and they hand plates over the counter. I've done two bikes, one by mail and one in person. I also registered a car by mail and then transferred those plates in person to a different car after some stupid Masshole flattened the first car. Every one of those vehicles was later registered in another state (Colorado for both bikes and the flattened car, Mass for the replacement car) with minimal hassle.
  19. ride4321

    ride4321 Long timer

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    Sent my application in a few weeks ago for a 84 Honda Elite. Just checked my bank acct and they cashed the check today. Should have my plate in a few days. One thing, there's a $500 minimum purchase price for tax purposes so even if you only paid $100 for the bike you owe $30 minimum in taxes. I had my application returned because of this.
  20. thedrewski86

    thedrewski86 too few miles

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    My 1975 CB550 fits in this category. I'm filling out the registration application and I will get the VIN verification for it. Obviously I'm doing this because I don't have a title but I have a bill of sale from the PO (he never had a title either). Indiana requires a title to register a vehicle so after I get the plate and registration from Vermont they also send me a title right?? I've read through this so many times I'm getting confused but I thought that was the entire point.

    Also I was just going to use the Vermont plate for a year but I don't want to deal with cops so I'm just going to get my state registration as soon as I can.