How to turn?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by SCExpat, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. mmanniko

    mmanniko Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    30
    Location:
    8200ft in Golden CO
    Glad you found it useful!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    #41
  2. SCExpat

    SCExpat Ex-expat

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    636
    Location:
    Caldwell, ID
    So with a lot of practice I can get good enough (or the belief that I am) to try something I can really get hurt on. :eek1

    The first time out I saw others doing stuff (big rocks) that I thought I would never try. Then my third time out I progressed to...little rocks. About a foot high. But it was FANTASTIC! I have not had so much fun on a bike in an area the size of a 2 car garage. I also then saw how.....if I keep at it, I would be able to someday try the bigger rocks.....about 3 feet high. After riding street and dirt bikes for.....40+ years I never expected that something that seems so simple could be so exciting/satisfying/addictive. Almost as good as sex and maybe as I get older....as good as or better than sex. :rofl
    #42
  3. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    you know, "winners" feel that passion, as you describe it in the last part of your post, at whatever they are doing & excell at. I say you need to reread that whole thing, thinking positive and of course prudent.

    But, maybe you were just joking, as I reread and edit my typing, it Sounds to me you already being 90+% winner, if you drop the belief that your going to get hurt, before you actually are, lol... Look at that future challenge as something you will eventually beat, then master. PSM, paragraph 4.

    For example, I mean, I wont jump out of an airplane, with a self packed chute, and not being shown how to do it, you know prep work (that is, without it being life threatening emergency of course. lol, then I would probably jump, take my chances. I never have done anything like it, and no idea what is involved other then some fearlessness or huge balls!? (no idea how women describe that though, sorry for the chauvinist type generalization there). Little blond devil (Rachel), if you wanna explain that, we'll listen.

    Fearless comes 95% learning or training, 5% getting over the fear, these number change as you get older, it is harder to not fear getting hurt, I believe. BTW, Look at Rachel H, she's riding stuff I kind of fear, due to not practicing that stuff, and knowing I need someone to prep me. BTW, Fear IMHO keeps people from doing STOOPID things, for most of us, lol. That is what Mark was saying as well, I think.

    I fell off a motocross bike in 87, in a race, doing roughly 40mph, up hill over a jump, that I was confident, yet not really had the experience or "prep work", so I made a rookie mistake. Mistakes in trials, hurt a helluva lot less, for less time, that is just from my experience, but freak things can happen, but in general.

    Now, I dont think you or any sane person, would attempt something that dangerous in "trials as a sport" either, because of the class structure if nothing else, it doesnt happen that much... not without the proper prep work (basics basics basics). Technically, that 1foot obstacle can scare some for several months, then suddenly "wow" they can do it. ask me how I know, if you can't tell...

    :freaky

    Cheers, and keep on working on it!
    #43
  4. dmay

    dmay Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    259
    Location:
    Bloomfield,Indiana

    Well,the only reason I was injured was I am very fragile in the right shoulder from a streetbike crash ages ago,wouldn't have hurt my 76 year old mom to jamb to a stop like I did,I have to be extra careful not to do exactly as I did,and visualization was just what I didn't do to prepare my muscles to act properly at the right time.
    #44
  5. SCExpat

    SCExpat Ex-expat

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    636
    Location:
    Caldwell, ID
    The first couple of times riding I was just practicing turns on flat ground going around big rocks. When I fell it was on flat sandy ground. No problem other than not wanting to make my bike look like the experts. :rofl

    Riding on the bigger rocks was just not...possible for me. Not in my belief that I would ever be able to do it. But, by taking the small step to small rocks and then being told that I could progress step by step to the bigger rocks.....it became possible. :norton I could see myself progressing over time to larger challenges and then of course falling from greater heights into a pile of rocks. :eek1 I need to temper my excitement with a bit of caution to keep my progress on a slow and steady path. I read one post about not jumping classes as you gain certain experience in each class that leads to the next. This makes perfect sense to me. I just want to keep having fun and not push myself to the point I try something I am not ready for. Even those one foot high rocks felt like a bit of a jump for me. I am just going to enjoy riding at this new level until I feel I have more control. Too frequently I do not feel in control and that I am just "dirt biking" the section. Just going over it quickly to make it through the hard part. Still a lot of fun and I can't wait to go riding tomorrow.
    #45
  6. toro618

    toro618 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Oddometer:
    987
    Location:
    NJ
    Sting, when you teach the proper technique of slow, controlled, and exagerated turning do you find that most are better at turning to one side than the other?

    I know in my case when doing slow figure 8's and turning left I naturally lean the bike way over into the turn and simultaniously weigh the outside peg, bend the outside knee, and throw my wieght on the outside knee. However, when turning right I have to tell my brain to bend the outside knee a little more and tell my brain to throw my weight to the outside knee more....it does not come as naturally. Who knows, my left side may be a little slower from all the crashes I've had on the right side of my head :huh :eek1
    #46
  7. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Toro,

    I get this question more than you think, "live" in fact just this past week Dad has a new 16 year old "recruit" that we'll be working with, so that make like rider 40 something, we've taken under our wing (pun intended).

    Some depends maybe on your background and muscle dexterity, I had to work on dribbling basketball left handed, jon my left handed friend did it easily either hand, at least it seemed to me... However, dad figures he practiced when I wasn't around though, lol... but he was a natural athlete at many things.

    But yeah, for instance: Dad started "riding in general) in the 60's and by early 70's dirt riding, then cycle club for Thornton area in colorado (racing MX and what not), I think he said again this past weekend that left turns seemed easier for him. If you watch motocross, lefts are easier because you drag your left foot, right foot on brake. This last year they had a supercross where the start turn, it was NOT a left, seems like it about wiped out half the field as well... Anyway for dad, left might still be, but he had a bad left shoulder (broken collar bone and dislocation of that bone at his shoulder) injury now so not sure which side is worst now. But for me, growing up, most of our "practice" sections while I grew up over compensated by being right turns.

    ++++edit+++
    Believe it or not Right turns might be easier for me, maybe slightly. but I feel pretty damn proficient at either, except where I need to wheelie turn on a off camber right turn. I'm short legged, stepping down anything scares me a little. But, you see, I lived for 40 years now of riding trials, in a kind of "boot camp" attitude where naturally if I'd set up anything like a "drill" or for your thoughts, as a practice section; I would then ride it maybe even 30 times any day I ride, unless it was just too easy. I have a killer section at the river off behind our farm, that I have been riding for 7 or 8 years, can only clean it about 3 times in a day (when emphasising on hops and many skills at least) and it is long. if it was a trials, not that hard to just do what you need to to clean it, but with practicing hops, and all that while doing this, I don't clean it very often yet, but getting closer. used to ride 4 nights a week in summer plus weekends, ride that section at least 3 of those days. plus other skill sections dad has designed...

    Plus with my dad, when I started, and having to gain confidence, it was exactly what Ryan young says, "ride it until you clean it 3 times in a row! then ride it backwards! Same thing, 3 times in a row clean, then add something, make the turn tighter or something" I like to be able to cross any log, brick, anything from potentially any of the millions of possible angles and positions...

    But 1st things first, get some confidence, get it to where getting over a particular log or what not, is just fun and natural. I was kind of timid really young, so I had to make myself overcome fears like everyone else, but in reality, I was young enough that I wanted to be able to go where dad and the big kids could go, so I think dad was able to push me harder than we can just any one else you know...

    Keep this one in your thoughts when you get your bike out to ride...

    I have said over and over, when I start my bike (not as much now, but for several years) I was made aware (being the son you know) that you don't give the bike any throttle until it warms up, other than what it takes to not "let it die" (& the back story to this, which will be another essay, but more about older bikes and how they might die then spend 20 minutes trying to get it started again). Anyhow, so I drilled figure 8's while the bike warmed up, ANYTIME, but I loved to do this, I dunno why, it is probably comparable to football, and I hated drills for that :puke1 but for some reason, I still to this day, love it on a trials bike, go figure huh?.

    I add to this, just trying to balance at stop as long as I can. Dad and I have pretty special bond too, I always wanted to be as good as he was in my eyes, and he loves drills that improve yourself, from pingpong to cycles.

    We'd work on the bikes in the dead freezing of winter, in a single car garage, and when done take turns riding that bike, in the single car garage, mostly figure 8's, or you know not much you can do in an 8x10 garage stall.

    BTW, I was also told that at Trials Training Center for the kids summer camps (i think it was) they were told to wait in line balancing, on bike not just lying around so to speak.
    #47
  8. toro618

    toro618 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Oddometer:
    987
    Location:
    NJ
    With all this drilling and practice, did you ever get a chance to just ride? LOL..just kidding. I agree with your dad....practicing drills is key to this art. I only picked up trails riding last month at almost 50....so I spend any time I get on the trials bike doing drills instead of just going out for a ride.
    #48
  9. Steelraider

    Steelraider Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Oddometer:
    51
    Location:
    Spring City, TN
    Probably going to step on toes, but when I attended trials schools in '70s given by Mick Andrews (World Champion Trials and Scottish 6 Days Champion 5 times) the emphasis was on Throttle Control. It can get you out of trouble faster than anything else. When in a tight turn using your "technics" and start to fall to the inside gently squeeze a little trottle on and float the front tire through the turn, it will straighten you back up, conversly should you fall outside, ease off the throttle and you'll fall back inside. I am a firm believer after 35 yrs that the throttle will have the last say in your success or failure. It MUST be used in conjunction with your "technic"'

    My 2 cents!!

    Larry
    #49
  10. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Fondly, maybe to you I overdid the "boot camp" part of the story... Maybe, but compared to what others do about RIDING TRIALS without a bit of motivation, I'll stick by it.

    Drills, Like I tried to convey a little, aren't that hard to work into a routine and do them when you might just be "waiting" like while my bike warms up, I could just sit there and wait, or make the piston swell up and just take off for a ride.

    There are so many things to work on, I had 40 years to work on them, and I am NOT some kind of Geoff Aaron/Pat Smage either, maybe if I had kept with it from Highschool, but I have always been under-tall (short & chubby).

    I watch the DVD from RYP, you ought to see if you can get it. I think it is called "Next" or Up Next!, it is a promotion video for Smage... But you can tell that Smage did little else than practice, and develop his riding skills, his whole life (video is from his High School days I believe) in his free time.

    look at all the different settings that they have setup for practicing, that are in the video, Sure on Jackass the movie they might set something up for one time, one take. But most even motivated normal people, won't build all that just for "try this once, then leave and head to somewhere to hang out with your buddies or watch tv..." Plus, I know you don't just click record; ride once; then do the next thing; on and on... no way Jose... probably practiced some of that stuff for several hours a day for a while, some for a few days at least, then probably 15 takes minimum to get it on filf like you want it... plus he played with things (Unicycle and bicycle for example) that the skills used and practiced, added to his MotoTrials skills.

    If I give it 10% of the effort he has, well, that makes a pretty good amature-Sr Expert rider.

    I know the main thing is to have fun,
    but to me it is more fun when you kick "trials' ass" instead of trials kicking your ass.
    #50
  11. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Larry,

    We "kind of" don't ride like we used to though, and it is hard to explain or even argue about how the things he said is true but also not right in the "basics" and when you are trying to develope them, so Im just gonna try a little 2 cents as well. :1drink

    Today on these bikes, we don't have the 30lb flywheels like we used to. Back in his day we let out the clutch, never did anything with it until the score keeper was ready to punch my scorecard. Plus, the bikes also only weigh about 150 lbs instead of his Ossa that was nearly 220lbs...

    Today we slip the clutch, and can ride all day in even 3rd gear going as slow as most do in 1st, but then we twist the throttle and let out the clutch like a Pro Stock dragster to get up and over things. And amature class riders nowdays, go over things we didn't get over as experts and masters did when Mick was in his prime or even when I was in my prime in the early 80s.

    The technique of turning is kind of right what you say that Mick says, but done with clutch more, what he's saying is how you do when you're compensating for failing to have your weight in the right place.

    that is all I mean... The way you say mick is saying it, as if it is "what you do is..." instead of what it really is, a bailout type of maneuver you can do. If you are tight in the section up against the tape, trying to make a corner, that is really tight, weight is too far inside, Ive been there too many times in the last 40 years, Ill tell you, that you cannot gas it and recover, you GOT to get your weight right.

    I hope you don't feel like I stepping on world champion toes, or yours either, I just want to make sure beginners don't begin to think that gas and go (and vice versa) is a technique they can do instead of doing it right.
    #51
  12. Steelraider

    Steelraider Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Oddometer:
    51
    Location:
    Spring City, TN
    You're probably correct in the "new approach" to today's bikes. (never rode one). I saw a world championship round a number of years back when it was held in Jasper, TN. Saw all the new bikes and would have given anything to have gotten to ride one.

    Mick gave a trials school at the same location 2-3 yrs later and got to visit with him and wife Jill. Didn't take the school (no bike) but watched for a while. He and Dick Mann started a vintage trials competition in Europe and it seemed to take off for a while. I restored a '70 OSSA MAR and plonked around the woods for a while a few yrs ago (fun) !!

    OK, going lurking now. Sorry to interupt!!

    Larry
    #52
  13. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    You ought to get one, come join us. it is really fun, once you get some basics down pat.
    #53
  14. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,389
    Location:
    nm
    #54
  15. Gerg

    Gerg Cupcake

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Oddometer:
    8,525
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Not to trivialize the question but as long as you have to think about what you are doing, you're not ready for prime time. You are safest when it's all natural, muscle memory. If you have to think you've lost too many miliseconds before the input to send you in the right (correct) direction.

    Just my 2 cents after riding for pretty near 50 years, and no, I do not know it all.

    Gerg
    #55
  16. SnoDrtRider

    SnoDrtRider Got Snow?

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,756
    Location:
    South Jersey... Close to the Pines
    #56
  17. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,389
    Location:
    nm
    Knees do not belong against the tank. Outside knee should be about 12 inches out and inside 3-4 out with your hips pointed towards the direction you are going. There is many more points, but one thing at a time. Have fun!:clap
    #57
  18. neilking

    neilking Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    435
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I'm not sure you have your helmet on right. Doh! just kidding
    #58
  19. SnoDrtRider

    SnoDrtRider Got Snow?

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,756
    Location:
    South Jersey... Close to the Pines
    Cripes! I'm 55 years old... if I point my hips in the direction I'm going the only place I'm going is the hospital! Next weekend is the Grenogue, De meet I'll try not to hurt myself there... I'll do a lot of observing of the other riders.
    #59
  20. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,389
    Location:
    nm
    HMMm. I`m 53 and just got back from a two day vintage event. 54 sections later my little cota only gave up 9 points! What a sweet machine!:D
    #60