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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Tagati, Sep 18, 2009.
Wolfman Peak Tail bag
KTM talking about buying Husky:
And we thought our 630's were short lived. Aufwiedersehen 650. Bike show is this weekend in Novi MI, lets see what they have to say.
While I would be happy if the current rebadging of bmw's into husky's is brought to an end I don't see to what benefit it is for KTM to buy Husqvarna?
Would it be to eliminate the competition and expand their production facilities? Have they turned Husabergs into blue KTM's, would Husky's just become red KTM's? If Bmw would have just pumped money and management into Husky and not made them take the failed bmw models they would have had better success imo.
BMW did pump money into Husqvarna.... and while I wasn't a huge fan of the G450 based 449/511, they were better performers when revamped into Huskies than they were as BMW's.
The TR650 Terra as the new bargain "upscale KLR", if left in the marketplace, would be a huge seller for the re-entry and cheapskate sector
As a BMW, the 650 wasn't that popular for it's price.
It is strange to think what the lineup will shake out as....Husaberg no longer does the 70degree motor, so they truly are just blue KTM's...and Husqvarna's only non-BMW derived motor is the X Lite in the 250/310.
What happens to it?
KTM has the very popular 350 that the Husqvarna 310R redhead was designed to compete with...
I agree they pumped money into husky, what i was trying to say is they should have stopped there and not forced the bmw designs on everything 450 and above. I never bought that line about the 630 engine not being able to be made to pass emissions, that was just and excuse to kill it off and replace it with the 400lb+ red klr, and it wasn't just the engine, all husky engineers did was try to polish that "turd-a" imo ..... I would much rather see ktm sourced parts as part of new husky's than bmw parts, if you have to choose one or the other
TE wasn't replaced by the TR. TR is for a different market at a different price point. They decided they wanted a piece of the 15,000 a year KLR market instead of the 1,000 a year KTM 690 market. Looks to be a great decision thus far and will help the entire brand more than any other bike Husky has released in the states.
If KTM dealers will start selling Husky parts then I am 110% behind this change. BMW dealers supported nothing and the lack of Husky dealers across the US has always been a limiting factor to their success and survival.
Let's not confuse ownership of Husqvarna as a company to 'combining the brands' so to speak. We didn't find husky parts at BMW, I don't think we will at KTM either. Unless they intend to completly absorb the brand, I think you'll find Husqvarna as a company to stand on its own. Husky has it's own factories, management, dealer network, parts distribution, etc. Sure there maybe some consolidation, but my take is the parent company sees growth opportunity of the brand and profits going forward. These are business transactions, not a desire to maintain any given brand history other than how it can attract retail customers for the product, and thus profits.
I don't know why people seem to want to make this point, this is exactly the same market, 600cc dual sport motorcycles! The TE630 will do everthing better than the TR650, except maybe be an all day streetbike and if you're going to do that why not just buy a streetbike? So many people seem to think the TE630 was as much of an offroad bike as the former TE510 or a KTM 525, it's not and never was, it's a true dualsport made for both paved and unpaved surfaces and it is the best 50/50 bike every made imo. If it all comes down to price buy a kymco for gosh sakes, or i guess maybe they have.
And the other thing, they, bmw, quit making the TE630 and started making the TR650 in the Husky line. They replaced one with the other, obvoiusly its not exactly the same bike but it darn sure was the 600 cc class dual sport replacement offer by husky.
And the other point about what a great seller the TR is/was. So how many TR650's have been sold? Whats the numbers? How much profit have they made? If they and the other bmw designs are such great sellers how come bmw is looking to sell the brand?
I'm all for Husky standing on their own and designing their own bikes and getting rid of the bmw's designs. I would be surprised if KTM did not want them to use KTM engines going forward for econmics of scale though. Isn't that what they have done with Husabergs? I don't know for sure about the Husabergs but that is what I heard, correct me if I'm wrong please.
Well...that's funny you would say that. Husaberg came from the original engineers from Husqvarna that were unhappy with the sale to Cagiva. The Italians are kind of a crooked bunch, not well focussed on growing the brand. Hell, they could hardly ship bikes through the 2000's.
Husaberg meanwhile continued to develop the 4-stroke race motors and KTM saw that as their way to get into that growing trend. They also saw a good product in the whitepower suspension which also came from Husaberg. So by trickledown effect. the KTM's are decendents of Husqvarna, how ironic that they now would buy the company.
IMHO it would be more likely to merge Husaberg and Husqvarna back together. I would also not be surprised to see universal motors across the brand lines, although with variances like we've seen with BMW/Husky.
Will certainly be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
I also agree on the TE630. It's replacement will never be as good, they really dumbed it down. Perhaps they did sell more of them, I don't know what the numbers are. I can tell you that I have no interest in one, would even consider replacing my 630 with a KTM350/500, but certainly not a red sertao. I have a Tiger 800XC for paved and dirt roads, and touring.
Since no one has said it yet...
CEO (Stefan Peirer) of KTM is selling his 12% to Bajaj and he is buying Husky. Bajaj now has controlling interest in KTM :eek1.
I just hope he has the pockets to keep Husky on an upward trajectory. Costs a lot of money to develop new models, support dealers, provide financing, inventory replacement parts, in short the stuff that makes up customer experience w/ a brand. Mr Peirer knows this if anybody does. I hope the first thing he does is build a 500EXC killer!
I'm thankful to BMW for keeping Husky alive. They also dictated the 610 refresh that resulted in the 630.
Ah, strange move that. I assume he would have to resign from KTM with this move. Indian company with the controlling interest might have some plans.. They have to plan bike development years ahead, maybe Mr Peirer had a peek into the future path of KTM and didn't like the direction they were taking? A fresh start with Husky to make bikes closer towards his vision?
Just guessing of course, interesting to see how this will play out.
Make more bikes like the TE630 please Stefan!
I think it sounds good that the KTM ceo wants out from under the coming Bajaj ownership and into Husqvarna as a competitor! I would love to see Husky go after KTM up and down the line and dump the bmw stuff and get back to Husqvarna designs! I just hope he has investors with deep pockets after bmw ran off so many of the original husky dealers. The translation below is a bit confusing, I think it says that Stefan Pierer and his group own WP suspension and would bring that to Husqvarna with them???
Here's another source
"Since the brand Indian Bajaj became a shareholder of KTM , in 2007, with 14.5%, its president Stefan Pierer never been entirely comfortable . When in 2011 the Indian brand bought more shares to reach 39% of the Austrian brand, and in March 2012 to reach 47%, Pierer felt even more uncomfortable, because presumably the brand india buy more shares and eventually leaving him side in no time, taking control of "their" ship.
It was a matter of time that Bajaj pass to have a 51% minimum, to shed Pierer , but before that happens, Stefan will step forward: sell all its shares to Bajaj, and with the money you receive buy Husqvarna . The operation is done through the company Pierer, Cross Industries AG , and is this that becomes the owner of Husqvarna shortly.
Cross Industries AG is a conglomerate created by Pierer, which brings in its structure to 50.6% of KTM, the brand Pankl to mechanical components, Wethje signature of carbon fiber components, suspension WP and signing Kiska design . What can this mean? Well that KTM are no longer designed by Kiska and not equip more WP suspensions, that would work for Husqvarna.
The operation is to be announced shortly, so we must be vigilant."
Wrong. Competing with $5K KLR, DR and XR's is a completely different market than competing with $9K KTM's.
Does a $15K Honda Fit hatchback compete with a $25K Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback? Of course not but by your definition they would, same purpose, same engine size and same configuration doesn't mean same market.
If that makes you happy to somehow say that replacing one very capable 50/50 bike with a 80/20 heavy pos is "not competeing" fine. Semantics seems to mean a lot to people who want to justify this 650 bmw turned into a husky, that started out as a 100% streetbike and the only reason it has 21 and 18 wheels on it is because the US dealers told them they couldn't sell it with the 19-17 as the strada. So the fact it's a waaaay overweight pos, and I have never been one hung up on a few pounds difference in bikes but we aren't talking just a few pounds where talking 400+:eek1 on a thumper:eek1
Thankfully it will likely be gone if this deal goes through, KTM has never built a bike with a 21 inch front wheel to "compete" with a KLR and hopefully the ceo of KTM, and his group that owns WP suspension among other things, that looks like he will soon run independently Husky wont either. Can you imagine WP suspension on a KLR competitor
Hopefully the "mini-cooper" (bmw's words not mine) of motorcycles will be on the scrap heap soon replaced by a company that wants to produce motorcycles that aren't "competing" with 20+ year old designs.
Good Riddance to bmw! Thanks for putting money into Husky and keeping it alive but no thanks for repainting your failed designs red.....semi rant over....now watch the deal fall thru
Now by your own admission above you admit it is not the same market. 50/50 -vs- 80/20 is clearly a different market. And why do you say pos? Have you ridden one or read the reviews? Are you comparing it to other 80/20 bikes or 50/50 bikes?
I'm done with this subject and moving on. You problem hate scooters also.
I don't care if it's the same "market" target, they replaced the TE630 with a TR650 and that is the sad fact. Whether that fits your definition of "replacement" or not.
I don't have to ride a 400lb+ thumper to know I don't want one, I already have street bike.
Oh yea, I have no opinion on scooters but if Cushman buys Husky and starts a new line of Husqvarna scooters and imply's that Steve McQueen would ride one in the desert I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a fan
I'm sure this question has been asked a million times so direct me somewhere else if so. Looking at buying a Husky 630, DR650, or KTM 640. Leaning toward the Husky. I know you are all biased but has anyone had a DR650 to compare? They are cheaper used and seem to be bullet proof reliable. But possibly losing out performance wise against the Husky? Of course the Husky is lighter. How does the 630 do on the road? How's the reliability of the 630? Riding will be 10% single track, 60% road, 30% backroads, give or take. Like the reliability of the DR and street ability. Sounds like the Husky does just as well on the street and better in the dirt. I think I have convinced myself against the 640 due to road vibes after riding a couple of them. Of course the 690 is sweet but too spendy.
You've touched on the obvious differences.
630 suspension is vastly superior to the DR, just better than the 640.
The 640 is an older desgin although a good one.
630 has EFI that works REALLY well.
630 isn't just a little better offroad
630 goes just fine on the hiway, although extended freeway running is not it's strong suit. After a 150 miles or so I'm ready to get off. 200 miles of dirt is no problem. Check out my Grand Canyon RR in my sig.
The 630 vibrates too...at 90 it feels like it's gonna grenade. But then the front tire is barely gripping (with knobbies) and will scare the crap out of you.
630 is going to be a lot more $$ than a used DR
630 is a lot more difficult to get parts for. Although I've had mine almost two years, 4K miles and haven't had to buy any parts for it.
A 630 is going to be hard to find, but not impossible
630 needs my reinforcing plates on the subframe if you're going to put ANY cargo on it.
IMO the 630 is just as 'dependable', although it is definitely a little more complicated.
DR is really dated technology.
The DR is a good bike on a budget. It needs suspension work to make it usable. But like you say, they are dependable as an anvil, and unfortunately weigh like one too.
The TE is going to appeal to a more experienced rider, the DR is more entry level. There are many that are afraid of the euro bikes, and keeping them maintained and running. For those the big four from Japan appeals.