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Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Jamie Z, Apr 11, 2010.
Scottoiler guys, What about "chain fling" how bad (or not bad) is it. I'm currently using Maxima Chain Wax with good luck. How good is the scott oiler at keeping things clean?
I'm another Pro Oiler proponent. Why spend all that extra $$$ when other systems are cheaper? As others have said, it's fire and forget...but when you need to change the delivery due to dust/ rain/ whatever you can do so on the fly. Something that has not been said is that the Pro Oiler ECU has a logic circuit to automatically dial back the delivery when you are at a steady speed for a long time. This keeps from over lubricating and creating a big mess. Also, since the delivery is on the rear sprocket it is less prone to making a mess (unlike the wick method). Finally, Pro Oiler delivery is geared to distance, not time. When you are poking along at 35 mph the chain is getting the same lubrication (per ft of chain) as at 70 mph, not so with the steady drip method where you are almost over or under lubricating the chain. I have a Pro Oiler on my third chain drive bike. The two previous Ducatis got well over 25K miles on a chain and sprockets. I changed well before needed only because I was starting long trips and don't like to go on a 6-8K mile trip where I might have to replace chain/sprockets. I find that I can go from east coast to west coast with one fill of ATF in the oiler, that's about 250ml. I use ATF because it is a good rust preventer, slings off (taking grit with it), and is cheap.
How bad was the mess on the wheel/body work with the ATF? How bad did dirt and atfg pool up inside chain guard and CS sprocket? Any oil run off the bottom of the engine?
As mentioned above, here is your primer for oiling. Ingeniously simple and effective.
I didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this was already covered but you already have a chain oiler on your bike, most likely. They have it routed to your air cleaner currently.
Re-route the crank case vent to the chain.
Bad idea. They "breathe",i.e. inhale and exhale. Nothing like a bunch of road debris floating around in your oil.
they exhale at a greater rate than they inhale. No dust can get in there. There is a youtube vid showing this using a balloon on the end of the hose.
Virtually all older vehicles used to have the vent open to the atmosphere and in some cases way down low, close to the ground. The only reason they changed this is the epa wanted to re-burn the oily gasses.
It does work and it's mostly free.
Gonna cautiously bump this thread back from the nether.
I am in the same boat as Jamie was/is, though my situation is 2 chains instead of 5.
I put 25600 miles on my DR650 in 5 months and went through 2 chains. The good thing about this time frame is that I get to see in a condensed timespan how my chain wears.
The first was a DID VM2 Xring chain. Not knowing any better, I cleaned the chain with WD40 and would put Bel Ray chain lube on it (a brief period of Dupont Dry Wax teflon lube since I had a bottle). I did TONS of dirt, water crossings, mud, and sand- TAT arkansas & oklahoma, multiple trails around moab, the dalton, road to Mccarthy, mineral creek road out of Valdez, road to Circle, Denali hwy, etc. At 13k miles, the DID had red dust sprinkling out and a number of links started kinking. When I pulled the master link apart (installed by a local pro small shop guru with 20 years experience since I hadnt pressed a link on before), it was bone dry with a nice layer of rust. Ground the rivets off one of the main links and same deal. It should be noted the Bel Ray stuff was thick and sticky and the chain would look terrible after dirt. Even WD40 had a hard time cleaning the chain.
I replaced it with a RK Racing Xring chain. More asphalt on this chain, but still did the New England Backcountry route, and a good portion of the TET. This time, I used a completely different approach as I accredited the short chain life of my prior chain to me cleaning with WD40 and using the Bel Ray stuff. I used Diesel fuel to clean the chain and lubed the chain with any thin dry lube I could find reasoning that with less lube, I would leave less for dirt to stick to. I have used Liquid Wrench Silicone spray (for rust protection and orings/xrings), LW chain lube (mostly this), and various other dry lubes. At 15k miles now, the chain is starting to be stiff, one link consistently kinks (not the master), its starting to need frequent adjustments, and its giving me driveline rumble.
I just received my new chain, which is simply a DID V8 Oring chain. It just needs to last until I head for SA where I will fit a DID VX2 and new sprockets. Wtf do I try now? Im considering a Scottoiler, Loobman, or Pro Oiler and using 90wt gear oil, but I ride tons of dirt so this has its negatives too.
OP, did you ever find a setup that works for you?
It should be noted- the DR runs a 525 chain, I used a 16 tooth front most often (15 if extended offroad) reasoning the larger sprocket would increase life, and I replaced my front sprocket when it hit 8k miles regardless of how it looked. Fuck chains..
yeah fuck chains. They're so complex and failure prone. Nothing like a finely engineered and maintained shaft.
Can't win. Chains are simple and have good aspects, but having to constantly change them every 15k is a pita. You run through some deep sand and the first thing that hits your mind when you return to asphalt is "fuck, I need to clean my chain.."
Ill stick with chains due to weight, better power transfer, no jacking of the rear, and no worries of snappage (belt), but thats only because I'm into dual sports where a chain is almost a must..
I'll be honest, I never did.
Here are the reasons: for one, despite all the helpful comments in this thread, choice of chain oiler still seemed confusing. And they're not cheap.
And finally, this last chain I installed, I decided I wouldn't maintain it at all, other than to occasionally spray it with DuPont Chain Saver. I don't clean it at all.
Well... I haven't looked recently, but it's by far my longest lasting chain, ever. I'm well over 20,000 miles with this last chain. Apparently, my efforts to meticulously clean my previous chains was in vain.
So.. someday I still might look for a chain oiler, but right now my current system is working pretty well.
Interesting. Kind of goes in line with my first chain as I didnt clean it very often. That said, I put that one through total hell so I might just be expecting too much. The second one however I expected to get at least 20k out of since I didnt do as many water crossings, did a lot more asphalt, and cleaned/lubed it meticulously. Instead it does only 2k more
I have Dupont Chain Saver in the 4oz squeeze bottle and will be using that this chain to see.
The current chain on my Tuono has 33K miles on it and it's got some life left. Rarely cleaned but lubed a lot with the DuPont Multi-Purpose in the blue can. I do replace the front sprocket at 15K miles or so. There is something to that stuff.
Off topic - Actually there's recent data I've read proven positive crankcase ventilation is more beneficial to (particularly m/c) internal combustion engines than not. It has to do with pressure differentials produced by the moving pistons to the crankcase. Turns out it is actually a delicate balance.
PDoiler installed a few years ago on my Weestrom - works flawlessly, excellent piece of kit. At the time was $106 usd shipped from England. He did have an ebay store at one time. It's the best value I could find out there. I've modified it recently to discharging onto the outer perimeter of the the rear sprocket instead of the wick to chain - centrifugal force working nicely to force the 90wt into the chain and less consequent splatter to the wheel.
Dupont lube manually otherwise is the 2nd best route in my experience and a cleaning in diesel every now and then. But it's really nice to have a chain drive bike that I can more or less treat like a shaft drive bike -- need just check the oil reservoir every oil change. I think it uses 500 cc of 90 wt every 8k miles. There's a sort of self cleaning going on to - the 90wt flushes/flings the gunk/dirt away.
Larger counters do seem to cause less chain wear.
Replacing counters at 10k seems to extend chain wear.
My guesstimate is the auto-oiler has doubled chain/sprocket life (from 15k to 35k). I've not kept track though of the type of 525 o-ring chains I've been using. Replacing the counter extends that further but I've not calculated by how much - but on a very very very long tour, better than having to replace the whole ball of wax and done in a pinch. What's also really nice is not having to worry about chain maintenance particularly in long distance touring. I'd say the $106 well paid for itself inside of 50k miles all things considered.
If your riding a lot in dirt and mud. You'll want to mount the oiler controller somewhere where you can adjust the rate of flow while riding since water does wash the lube away -- when it's dry a lower rate of flow is needed. In my case I tucked the controller down next to the fuse tray since most of riding is asphalt - set it and forget it.
Hope this helps.