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Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Bama67, May 14, 2013.
I thought anything street legal had to have a title.I bought a Zuma 50 and got a title app.
Here everything street legal must have a title, with the exception of pedal mopeds, which have a registration only. 50cc scooters are considered motorcycles, and require a motorcycle endorsement and insurance.
If you are lucky you might find a deal on a new Zuma 125. I got mine for Just a hair over $3000 OTD. But it was a one year old leftover model. New ones are close to $4500 OTD. Wait for the 2014 models to start coming in. you can save a lot on a 2013.
As for buying used, sometimes that is a good idea, and sometimes not. You never know how the previous owner treated it. There is also the desirability issue. Nothing beats the feeling of buying a brand new bike. If you plan to keep it a long time, it is probably worth it. If you already know you will only have it for a short time, then used makes a lot more sense. Same thing if it is going to sit outside, and if you are going to use it for commuting, and will have to leave it in a parking lot. I have never used a new bike for that kind of thing. My 25,000 mile '08 Vino 125 still looks new, except for a few bugs. It is sitting in the living room right now, where it has always been kept except for when it was actually on the road.
That's what I thought too but when I went to change registration from GA to AL last month they said unless it's over 150cc they won't issue a title. It must have been a recent change. So now I have an AL tag and registration but still have my GA title:huh
Is this a good deal or could you find a better price from an individual? I was looking at. This one yesterday and it looked to be in good shape.
2009 125 for $2300.
Yeah I have seen that as well and its definitely a bargaining point. Now the local dealers will know the hassle of buying one on ebay and will likely not match and I really don't expect them to match but I don't think its out of line thinking the pre tax and license price should be within a few hundred.
Unfortunately I flat out got owned yesterday and never got a chance to run by the dealer to work a deal. So I will have to try it on Tuesday or Wednesday now.
I am also considering buying the used one down in Enumclaw. Its only 50 miles return and can be done on 45 MPH roads. It will take 3 hours but it is possible to take a transit bus down there. The price is a little high at $2,799 for used 09 but often the bargaining power on used stuff is better then new. If they can get the OTD price at $2,800 we may have a deal.
Another thing to consider is a person who works in my business park rides a Kymco Agility 125. I talked to him about his scoot and he rides it religiously with 7K on the clock. It looks a bit weathered because of our rain and I see some rust on it already from our constant rain but he says it never has missed a beat. It goes 55 MPH (sometimes 60) and gets 80 MPG he says. To me it looks to be much the same concept as the Zuma 125. It does look a bit down on fit and finish compared to the Zuma but overall they are solidly just as bullet proof. Also if you ride a Zuma in this environment it would probably look just as furry as the Kymco.
The cool thing about the Kymco Agility 125 is a dealer is advertising them for $1,999 OTD for some new old stock they have. I have no idea if this is even a great price but already its likely almost half of what you would pay OTD on a Zuma 125 in my market.
Food for thought I guess!
I still prefer the Zuma 125 as overall fit and finish looks better and the Agility 125's styling just does not tickle my fancy as much. However if I can't strike a deal I may go look at it and maybe it will grow on me?
Whatever is cheapest and be reliable will work for me. This is intending to be my winter hack scooter and no matter what I buy will look furry in a hurry I am sure. It will be easier to take beating on a $2.000 Kymco then a $4,000 Zuma 125.
Hopefully they deal on the Zuma and I can get it for a fair price. Resale wise I think the Zuma 125 would be way better.
I think you could do a little better.
I bought my minty 2009 with 1k miles for 2k, from an individual so no BS fees and such.
Probably be a tad higher in this market. However I have seen some used ones in this state go for around $2,200 so not that far off. However anything in the western part of the state is plagued by the same disease affecting the dealers so maybe $2,500 is the best you will find. This is not necessarily golden but what I have observed. Season has a lot to do with it.
Today I gotta few important things to do and stop by my work to make a few phone calls and send a few emails. Hopefully later this afternoon I can go talk to the Yamaha dealer and see how low they will go?
I am not the best negotiator but I am better then I used to be. I kind of hate the style many of them have. You fill out the info sheet and then you write your offer in the bottom. Never do they except your offer and they usually go a lot higher. You counter offer another and they go way higher again. Usually after much negotiating you end up closer to what they want then what you want. Seems like a lot of wasted time to me.
This time I just want them to get to the point and give me the best price. If its not except able they can try again. Bottom line I am not paying over $3,700 OTD for a brand new 2013. Compared to what others are paying I think this is more then generous. If not then I will just go used. I prefer private party as its cheaper but a solid dealer find is alright as well.
Decide what you will pay ahead of time. Write the check. Then go to the dealership. If they can sell you the bike for that price, they make a quick, low effort sale. If they can't, you say, "Thanks anyway," and walk.
When we bought a pair of Honda PCX 150s recently, all the dealerships but one tried to "play the game." That one got the sale, I got the bikes. No add-on freight, set-up, BS.
My feeling is they will keep adding on fees until you balk. Don't give them the opportunity. One place we went into, ready to buy, I told the salesman, "If you come back with all the crap added on, we will walk." He did, we did. Later, I got a call from that dealership, with a significantly reduced price; I told them, "That's a better price - too bad you blew the opportunity to make the sale. If I can't trust you during the sale, I damn sure won't trust you after the sale."
Even at their "reduced" price, I saved over $800 at another dealership. It's worth the effort to give them the opportunity, and worth it to walk.
The best negotiating tool you can have is to be willing to walk out the door. As long as you are sitting there negotiating they probably won't meet your price. Get up and start walking and they just might. Keep this in mind. Typically a bike will cost a dealer about 10% under MSRP. On smaller units like the Zuma it's probably less. On the bigger bikes it's more. All the add on fees are extra dealer profit except maybe a small title fee. They do have to make a profit to stay in business. I have never paid more than MSRP + tax on any new bike and usuelly far less than that because I often bought bikes that were new but a model year or more old. Bottom line, the dealer is making a fair profit if he sells at MSRP + tax.
The biggest problem I have is the fees. On a low margin product like a scooter I don't mind paying MSRP but when the $3,300 scooter magically grows to $4,500 then I have a problem. I did most of my new bike buying between 2003 and 2006 and back then you did not pay the fees if you did not want to. Simply saying "You are reimbursed by Yamaha to cover those cost plus they are the cost of doing business" and magically they would not sell them. Lately though some dealers insist and if you don't pay they will just wait for the next customer to come in and pay them.
Best deal I ever got was on my 06 Ninja 500. I bought in November of 2006 for $4,499 plus tax and license. MSRP at the time $5,199. This is the power of buying during the winter witch I don't have now.
I am about done and on my way. I am not confident I will be bringing home a new Zuma today but I am very confident that I will have one by the end of August.
Really don't need it until the fall anyway as it will be my winter hack scooter.
I am still thinking of the Agility 125. Its priced well and I have complete confidence in Kymco. However I thought it was fuel injected but its not. I am leaning towards all fuel injection in the future and buying the Agility 125 would be a step back. However I may still have a look out of curiosity. If the carb is set up right its not really an issue. My Reflex is carbed and its just fine. Only takes a few extra cranks if it sits a really long time. During the summer its always ready to go.
I will report here later what they put together. I want it obviously but not that bad. I really want to put the deck of cards and make the dealer make me want to buy it and not the other way around.
I have a Kymco Super 8 150 which is also carburated. It has basically the same motor as the Agility with a few more CC's. It starts up immediately and can be ridden away with no warmup. I ride all winter in temps down to the low 20's. The carb works flawlessly but does not get the MPG of an FI scooter like the PCX. On the plus side it is very easy to work on. MSRP on mine was $2399 but I got mine for $2200 OTD The Agility costs even less than the Super 8.
That "one" dealer is a rarity. They are the only decent dealer in the state as far as I know.
One thing I have done is call the dealer and ask for the sales manager. I tell him I am ready to buy a certain bike, and am ready to put down a deposit on it right now if the price is right. Of course they want you to come on down, so they can play their games, but I won't do it. I again tell them ton give me a price, and if I agree, they can email me the numbers, and I will put a deposit on it, and be down to pay for it with a cashiers check for the exact amount. Very few will turn down such an easy deal if there is any profit at all in it. Dealers have to move bikes. A bike sitting on the floor is costing them money. Sure they want to scam you, they make a fortune that way. But I have found it is very hard for them to say no when you flash cash in their face. Like the old saying, "cash talks, BS walks"
I managed to pull it off today and I am now a zew Zuma 125 owner. Its going to be a difficult time sleeping tonight since its not getting delivered until tomorrow. My wife is working doubles this week and my folks are out of town so nobody can give me a ride to fetch it today but the dealer offered to deliver it. They had to prep it anyway and I made a point that its important to prep the battery correctly or I will have to replace it again in a few months.
Its a new 2013 manufactured in February of 2013. Its the flat black colored model. They also had a blue one and I debated it for a good 30 minutes and in the end I went for the black one. I will never bother doing so but it does not look difficult replacing the colored bits if one chooses and you can have whatever color they make if you wanted.
I got a bit lucky and it did not take much negotiation. If fact it was pretty low effort because they are currently offering a $200 rebate on them. I managed to get the fees waved but they would not come off of MSRP not including the rebate. However with the rebate I was actually below my target figure. Out the door it was $3,643 is what I paid. Keep in mind we have a high 9.5% tax rate and licensing and documentation fees are around $100 to $150. So bit higher then what some have fetched them for but around here the sales tax is going to get you.
About the only way I could have done better is find a dealer that has a leftover 2012 they have taken a few hundred off then maybe apply to the rebate to that. The 2nd nearest Yamaha dealer had 2012 but sold it a few weeks ago. Next nearest that has one is in Bremerton. I did not feel like going all the way out there to save a few hundred. Yeah time is money and $200 is good junk of change but I am also a busy guy.
Congrats! Don't look back, don't check any more prices, just ride it and enjoy it! Oh, and post some photos of it tomorrow.
Congrats on the Zuma.
I finally get home tomorrow and get to ride the one I bought about 2 weeks ago. But the wife has rode it a couple times and really digs it.
Oh, and as soon as I buy a bike I stop looking at prices and whatnot, someone will always get a better deal than you. No sense in worrying about it.
Have fun out there.
Especially with what the Ferry and gas costs these days, you would have lost money
Good job on getting the scoot you were after. I have been reading this thread, gathering ideas for how to deal with Stealerships when I pull the trigger on a PCX150...
Congratulations. I think you got a pretty good deal. Now go out and enjoy it and remember that we will be expecting a report and some pics.
Enjoy miles of smiles!
A slight snag and I don't have it just yet. The person at the shop doing deliveries some how did not get the note and it did not go on the truck today. However my salesman said he is hooking up a trailer right now and will deliver it personally as soon as he can get here. Probably in a few hours.
Does not really matter as the weather is garbage today anyway. Rain does not really bother me but not a brand new scooter with brand new tires.
I did manage to clean out the garage. Enough space for one more!
Wife's going to kill me though when she see's the pile of crap in the living room :eek1
After the Zuma its time to get rid of some of the older bikes and get some newer ones. However I am having a heck of a time making up my mind what I want? Probably get some help here when the time comes.
KLR650, Ninja 500 for a DL1000 possibly!
SV1000N, SV1000S plus the Concours for a new Concours 14 or FJR or ST1300. A tough choice and a big reach!
In the future I may want another 500 to 800cc geared bike. Possibly Honda NC700 or one of the new Honda 500's or a Kawasaki Versys.
At the moment none of the scooters are on the list to be replaced except for maybe the Reflex. At 12 years old and 15K miles it has me thinking of a replacement but honestly its perfect shape considering its age and runs perfect. Does not use a drop of oil..etc! Only thing it needs is a bit of routine TLC in the belt area and new rollers. I just put new tires on it 500 miles ago and I see no financial reason to switch. However if the Forza 300 really grows on me then maybe.
Holy shit dude. :eek1
I am pretty jelly of that bike collection.
Although I would not want to try to get one of he bikes in the front out.