"Idle no More" concerns

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Steve G., Jan 6, 2013.

  1. the kaz

    the kaz has become "FERAL"

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    You could always start your own thread where you sing the " I love Al Gore and David Suzuki " songs :D
    Also have you been in a modern mine ? or is your mineral extraction hatred solely based on news articles ?
    #81
  2. aquadog

    aquadog Dude Buddha

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    Definitely an axe to grind, that fellow. Probably does so with the chip on his shoulder. I suppose environmental lobbyists don't count, as they're not *evil*. Mining reclammation and bonding to make it happen have come a long way from the days he's referring to.

    I missed this part, and agree with GreatWhiteNorth that this is a very civil - dare I say, Canadian - thread, and my take is the general theme is more "we're happy to help, spend this money and have these programs, but it's time to step up yourselves and break the cycle you're in". In the Yukon, aboriginals certainly are working towards that, and while there is a break-in period, it looks like it will work well. If Idle No More helps break the cycle in some way, great, but right now it seems like pointless complaining.

    Brunssd comment's seem like an example of a very one-sided view, which is considerably easier to hold and argue, because everybody else has no point.

    Just as Indians call someone who has 'gone white' an "apple" (red on the outside, white inside - often used to denigrate a successful person), there are people who empathize with any aboriginal plight. I used to work with a Jewish guy who consulted to bands, and it was definitely "aboriginals 100% correct, since they've been persecuted like Jews have". We even had a Chinese professional promoting himself as "hire me, since my ancestors were persecuted like you", and, oh yeah, I'll take a giant % of your grant money.

    From sincere to rip-off artist, you get people who go totally to one side. Maybe that's sometimes needed to make a point, but it's not productive in the long run. A third consultant to aboriginals I knew was 100% after anything the band wanted, to the point that she would give up nothing in negotiations and was very unreasonable (the band position was a bargaining point, not 100% reasonable to start with) and you just couldn't deal with her. Whatever she was involved in failed, but she kept getting hired by bands due to her attitude. Spence is demonstrating some of that attitude.

    One big difficulty, and I don't know where it comes from, is that a lot of bands are either unsopisticated in choosing or ? that they prefer a consultant/lawyer/whatever who is better at stroking them than getting results. Then they recommend the smarmy sucker to another band, that gets ripped off as well. Most bands who haven't joined the modern era really don't like being told that what they want isn't feasible/is wrong, so they keep hiring these dicks and waste money.

    Off topic, but related. There are certainly people out there willing to take advantage of band money, and I bet some are making more off Idle No More right now....

    There are enough potential advantages to being aboriginal, such as grants/funding/tax breaks/programs, that I know a few people who looked for enough ancestry to claim status. It's a tough road on some reserves, but often not due to a lack of external support. Whether that support is being provided in an appropriate way can certainly be argued.
    #82
  3. Steve G.

    Steve G. Long timer

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    Thankyou for clarifying your views, and, in many ways, I agree with you. However,,,,there's still the underlying point I'm trying to make. Whether you are left, right, or centreist, we gotta eat, live, and, as all humans do, consume. Since the dawn of mankind, 65,000yrs ago in south central east Africa, 'man' has been consumers of carbon entity. Nomadic man moved to a new area to consume the plenty, until those resources were depleted, and this is the one and only reason 'man' did NOT stay in east Africa. our distant ancestors by their very consumption HAD to move on. And, as everyone including FN's migrated towards north America, over the land/ice bridge that once connected Alaska with Russia, and non FN's going through central and Northern Europe and eventually through Geenland, Iceland, and Labrador.

    And so, all humans consume. And here we are in 2013. And here we must decide to return to the bronze age by stopping resource consumption, or by using it carefully to continue our modern lives. If we choose to not consume, at least let me leave to set up shop in an area of the world where freezing to death is not a possibility.

    We are all in this together, we either make it happen, or the money supply train stops, for EVERYONE!!!!! It really is that simple. We can wax poetic about the good old days of throwing nets in the water and getting tons of fish. Too many people is essentially the cause. Overpopulation of the earth is not the fault of any particular ethnic group,,,,it's simply the success of those original nomads that started walking north all those neons ago, of which WE ARE ALL originated.
    Blocking trains, blocking traffic, blocking access to public lands and submitting the media and the populace to fake starvation diets [salmon fish broth is full of protein and omega fat, perhaps a super food] is simply an irritant over the vast majority that will lead to reduced support for those who really need support, the non-chiefs and non-FN leaders who are being treated like slaves and pawns while horrible waste of fundage [all from resource extraction royalties I might add] continues with the tap wide open.
    #83
  4. B.C.Biker

    B.C.Biker mighty fine

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    Just sped read this thread. Lot's of well thought out replies. That last one from Steve G should be printed out and carpet bombed across Canada so everyone can read it. A copy should also be tucked into the pocket of every new Canadian as they step onto our soil.
    "Natives", hippies and spoiled children of all ages have to learn that milk doesn't come from a store. It gets sucked out of cow with all it's related ugliness.
    #84
  5. preppypyro

    preppypyro Been here awhile

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    Good post. Ive been to many reserves all over Saskatchewan, northern Alberta, and a few in souther BC, and each reserve is the same. Dirty, trash all over the place.

    Another thing Ive noticed in every reserve home ive been in, plus just about each one Ive seen on tv, and on the net, is the home is kinda trashed and beat up, many with wood covering the windows, stuff like that, but I dont know If Ive ever seen one house that doesnt have a huge flat screen tv, with an xbox or ps3 sitting near the tv.

    Little off topic I know, but check your priorities in life if you choose to live in a shithole house, and equip it with a kickass tv (that goes for any race or gender of a person!)
    #85
  6. IKIGAI

    IKIGAI Been here awhile

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    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...der-leaving-assembly-of-first-nations-report/

    Well it shouldn't be long now before this collection of 'loose affiliates' turns into the Babooshka Doll of Aboriginal Nations.

    Unfortunatly what this movement, and everyone before it, seems to dance around, is the issue of civil rights.

    How long before the youth connected with this 'event', wrest control from the head-dresses and <S>demand a change in </S>demand to change, their future?
    #86
  7. AKDuc

    AKDuc Alaska Born Ducatisti

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    Might be time to reiterate what the originators of this movement say it's about. From the Regina Leader-Post a few days ago:

    REGINA -- The grassroots Idle No More movement founded in Saskatchewan is going global.

    Speaking at the University of Regina on Friday, Sylvia McAdam, one of the founders, announced that organizers are in the midst of planning for a global solidarity day on Jan. 28. She intends to be in London, England.

    In Regina, plans are for a &#8220;teach-in&#8221; at the Conexus Arts Centre, with a number of speakers, including an environmentalist, Metis leader, First Nations educator, and possibly a political refugee.

    The plans were revealed when McAdam spoke at the Apathy into Action conference hosted by the Regina Public Interest Research Group, a U of R-based resource centre committed to social and environmental justice.

    Asked by the group to trace the origins of Idle No More, McAdam admitted even she is surprised at how it has grown from four Saskatchewan women chatting about the federal government&#8217;s Bill C-45 to a national and now global movement. &#8220;We&#8217;ve also been invited to speak at the United Nations,&#8221; the diminutive, quiet-spoken McAdam added at the end of her lecture. No further details were provided.

    The movement began when four women &#8212; McAdam, Sheelah McLean, Jessica Gordon, and Nina Wilson &#8212; began sharing their concerns about the federal omnibus bill.

    &#8220;I&#8217;m not an activist,&#8221; McAdam conceded, adding she&#8217;s busy enough raising her family. But when a friend suggested McAdam check out Bill C-45, she became alarmed. &#8220;I have a law degree, and I couldn&#8217;t understand it,&#8221; she said. But what she came to grasp was that it carried the potential to weaken environment assessment requirements pertaining to water bodies, and undermine land management decisions on reserves. She worries it could open the door to, for example, a nuclear waste dump being located on reserve land if a small number of people voted in favour of such a move, even in the absence of chief and council support.

    The discussions among the women gave way to an Idle No More Facebook page; &#8220;teach-ins&#8221; and rallies in Saskatoon and Regina followed in November and spread to other Saskatchewan cities. They began to think nationally, and the momentum spread, often driven by women, she noted. &#8220;It just exploded after Dec. 10,&#8221; with a national solidarity day. And now, through social media, the founders have been in discussions with people from around the globe, including England, Germany, Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

    McAdam said there&#8217;s a misconception that Idle No More &#8212; a name the women chose not to dishonour the work done before them but stemming from their own desire not to sit idly by &#8212; is strictly an indigenous movement. She said it&#8217;s for anyone who believes in preserving water and land.

    &#8220;We&#8217;re up against a very real threat,&#8221; she said.

    McAdam recalled how her father used to pick up a handful of dirt and say that&#8217;s as much as any one person owns. &#8220;The rest is for the generations to come.&#8221;

    McAdam said the founders of Idle No More have always encouraged a movement that is peaceful, legal, moral, and driven by love.

    &#8220;We&#8217;re doing this for the love of all our children,&#8221; McAdam said.
    #87
  8. edwin

    edwin Been here awhile

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    thanks for that akduc
    #88
  9. the kaz

    the kaz has become "FERAL"

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    due to insider information and public knowledge of Uranium City this part of her statement forces me to conclude she is just another tree hugger and a native who is mad that she is not getting rich :eek1
    #89
  10. aquadog

    aquadog Dude Buddha

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    That statement, and what may lie behind it, is just nonsense. At best, well meaning ignorance, at worst, some other agenda. This is in line with the "band members will sell all their land and have nothing". No, they can lease and make money, but not sell. There are some good summaries on line, albeit the mainstream media ones are fairly left leaning and intimate some of the same scare tactics. When you go to a source, that's not what the bill says.....
    #90
  11. RED CAT

    RED CAT Bumpy Backroader

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    Until they clear out, stop the blockades and go home. I know they are not all involved in mischief but stop the money flow for a while. Worked when I was in Basic Training back in my Navy days. We were divided up into 80 man units called Divisions. If one guy screwed up, all 80 guys would suffer ie. more laps around the parade square etc. Didn't take long for that guy to never screw up again. He usually got a beating not a slap with a kit glove.
    Unfortunately this political correctness BS has made us all a bunch of pansies now a days.
    #91
  12. Forest Cop

    Forest Cop Forest Cop

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    It's amazing how this story repeats itself year after year, with no end in sight.
    Notice how FNs get together to protest and block roads,etc.....as a group?
    When will the WASP Canadians get off there butts and stand-up for themselves?
    Of course, most of us work and don't have time to travel across the country for a Pow-Wow.
    #92
  13. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    Each year we spend more money on the department of Indian Affairs than we do on our entire military....

    Thats seriously messed up :nod
    #93
  14. edwin

    edwin Been here awhile

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    ya...
    we should spend more $$$ on guns than ppl....right
    #94
  15. shipwrek12001

    shipwrek12001 Shipwrek

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    your right,,, we shouldn't spend on guns/military instead we keep the endless supply of cash to Indian affairs, the bloc, and while we are at it lets create a public office for the rest of the ethnic groups, one for the Arabic community, Chinese, Japanese. ETC....Lets shut the military down stop wasting money there and give more to the lawyers of these groups so they can create more unrest...


    can you say...MELTING POT...
    #95
  16. aquadog

    aquadog Dude Buddha

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    I'm still good with the idea of Canada as a cultural mosaic, but that implies that, like a tile mosaic, the different ethnicities want to fit together in a beautiful pattern, all contributing to a whole. Some do. Some are still learning. Some...well....
    #96
  17. Jimo368

    Jimo368 intrepid traveller

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    I've got no problem with anyone keeping or promoting their culture, in fact I think its great. I just dont want to pay for it.
    #97
  18. skysailor

    skysailor Rat Rider

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    They stand to lose their culture much faster in poverty and on welfare than by being contributing members of society. Canada is full of diversified cultures. All alive and healthy. AND Except for our indigenous peoples, all have JOBS, pay taxes and are members of society. Without exception. Not our natives though......a perpetual welfare state.......and Canadians think this is Okay? On what FUCKING planet is it Okay to "keep" an entire race on welfare? Way past time to turn off the money tap!! Close the reserves, toss out the treaty cards (don't get me started here!) and make them EQUAL to, and not superior to the rest of us.
    Lyle
    #98
  19. Gregster

    Gregster Been here awhile

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    Why are we still paying for our ancestors promises? I had absolutely nothing to do with creating this mess. I was born here like the rest of my family for six generations now and I am as native to this land as anyone else alive today. I resent paying for anyone else's problems, I have enough of my own.
    #99
  20. skysailor

    skysailor Rat Rider

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    Simple answer young Gregster. We live in a pussy ass, politically correct society, where everybody spends their day tripping over each other to kiss some minority ass. Even though, we have now become the minority. Personally, I say "Fuck them"....let's stand on our hind legs and turn off the welfare tap!
    "Idle No More" should mean......"we'll get JOBS!"
    Lyle