If Riders were held to the same standards as Pilots

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by klaviator, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

    May 28, 2008
    Huntsville, AL
    Since aviation is sometimes used as an example when discussing riding safety, I thought I'd put out a hypothetical example: "If Riders were held to the same standards as Pilots"

    I'm NOT suggesting that we do this. I'm just putting out some food for thought.

    Let's start with the requirements to get a license:

    Many hours of classroom training and 40 hours ( or perhaps a certain number of miles) of actual riding, some with an instructor tagging along and some solo. The riding would include different types of roads and require practicing things like emergency braking and going around curves. Being able to "preflight" all the systems on the bike would also be covered.

    After this the student would be required to pass a "check ride" The student would now get a limited license allowing him to operate motorcycles up a certain displacement, let's say 250cc. This would be the equivalent of a private pilot's license. One more thing, if you did your training on a scooter or trike, that's all you would be qualified to operate.

    Then after more training, and certain number of hours/miles, the rider could get a more advanced license equivalent to a commercial pilot's license. Perhaps now he could ride up to 500cc. If he wanted to operate something bigger, say a GSXR1000, he would have to get a "type rating" to operate that particular model. He would have to demonstrate knowledge of all of the systems (engine, brakes, "preflight", etc) as well as pass another riding test which would include taking it out on the track and riding it to certain limits. Of course, if it's a sport bike, demonstrating the ability to hang off would be required:deal

    Now, to be able to keep riding, he would have to pass a recurrent check ride every 6 months to demonstrate continued proficiency.

    Let's not forget the requirement to pass periodic physical exams.

    Oh yeah, one ticket and you will most likely lose your license for at least 6 months.:eek1

    I AM NOT suggesting we do what I outlined above. However something more demanding than riding around a few cones in a parking lot and stopping from 20 MPH might be in order.

    Any comments?

  2. MisterPX

    MisterPX Been here awhile

    Aug 29, 2011
    SE WI
    How much flight training would be required if the only aircraft were Sopwith Camels? :wink: What are there, like 3 switches and 2 gauges?

    As a side note, since you seem to be an aviator, what were things like before the FAA was created? Wasn't it more like, if you can afford an aircraft, you can fly it.
  3. RedShark

    RedShark Long timer

    May 10, 2005
    As I've explained to many riders from other countries that have tiered liscensing, The Motor Company ( H-D ) will NEVER allow passage of ANY measure that would restrict ANYONE from walkng into a dealership and financing a $ 20,000.00, 800lb full dresser. No matter HOW much of a bad idea it may in fact be. No way in Hell.
  4. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

    Feb 11, 2012
    Sounds like what you have to go through here in Germany.

    eyesight test, first aid course -> classroom studies -> theoretical test -> practical training including pre drive checks, braking, slalom, evasion etc. driving on the Autobahn, in town and at dusk -> practical test
    When you start at the age of 16, you're then allowed to drive up to 15hp and 50mph. When you start at the age of 18 to 24 you are restricted to 34hp for 2 years, then (or by starting at the age of 25) it's automatically open (so, no "type rating"). If you made the licence at 16 you still have to do practical training and pass the practical test again with a stronger bike to get the 34hp licence. And from next year on, the 34hp (then upgraded to 48hp) licence isn't automatically upgrading to open any longer, so you have to pass another test on a stronger bike, but no further training lessons.
    And if you did your training/test with an automatic transmission two-wheeler you're not allowed to drive a manual one. (Same with cars.)
    At least from that point it's lifetime (except for professional driving, there are regular medical checks).

    You see, the thought is not THAT farfetched.
  5. urbanXJ

    urbanXJ Long timer

    Aug 19, 2008
    Pearland, TX
    my only comment is that everyone should do a track day with a professional instructor at least once.

    Most times you can corner work at the track for one day, and then get a free track day.

    Feedback form a pro is worth all the time/money.
  6. EZman671

    EZman671 Adventurer

    Jul 12, 2011
    When I was in Jr./ Sr High School in Florida in the mid 60's a 15 year old could drive a motorcycle that was 5 hp or less.

    We had every bike know to man at the time ( like Triumph 750's ) All the registrations said 4.9 hp.

    The motor vehicle dept in those days did not ask a lot of questions.

    Funny watching a 100 lb Jr High kid kick starting the big bikes.

    If I remember correctly there were very few safety problems. There were also a lot fewer cars on the road.
  7. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

    Jun 22, 2009
    On my bike
    Tiered licensing for motorcycles is a fact of life in many countries already .... including Oz although here the requirements differ a fair bit between states. Where I live (Queensland) riders have to retest for the larger capacity bikes ie non LAMS. In some states the retest is not required. If you get an auto license you are stuck with it unless you upgrade ... this applies to cars as well as bikes.

    IMHO what really is lacking in most places is classroom time aimed at embedding concepts. It's strange really because in most every field of employment people have to attend competency based courses just to get a job and then have annual mandatory refresher training. People these days are fairly well tuned into workplace training so taking the concept to vehicle operations would hardly be a huge leap.

    oh BTW here the rider courses do have on-road components.
  8. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

    May 28, 2008
    Huntsville, AL
    I'm not that old:gerg I wouldn't know.:lol3
  9. lemieuxmc

    lemieuxmc Banned

    Mar 19, 2009
    East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
    Guys like John Denver, JFK Jr., and that baseball player who crashed into the building in NYC would be able to afford a motorcycle license (and still get killed) while you and I might not.

    Did I mention Ben Rothlisberger, Kellen Winslow Jr., Arnold Schwarzenegger, and George Clooney as other famous 98% crashers? :norton
  10. Aerocycle

    Aerocycle Been here awhile

    Feb 16, 2011
    Oregon (The valley)
    I realize your saying you aren't litterally suggesting we do that, but yea I get your point. Oregon, if they havent already, they are going to require that the only way to get the motorcycle endorsement is by taking the team oregon structured course which actually is a pretty decent course. It takes three days. But obviously motorcyclist's aren't flying IMC in the clouds, or having to keep track of as much as a pilot. In one sense riding a bike is two dimensional compared to three dimensional flying... unless you go airborne on your bike! :evil

    There are a lot of knuckle heads out there riding bikes, getting killed, or killing others from accidents, but just like aviation was "written in blood" and the entire industry is centered around detail and safety, perhaps as motorcyclists we too can accept that mindset of safety, and being "written in blood" learning from others mistakes....

    Those are my thoughts....:freaky
  11. Reryder

    Reryder Onward through the fog...

    Sep 11, 2007
    Cairns, Oz
    You've got it all wrong.
    Leave motorcycle licensing as it is already.
    And make all the car drivers and truck drivers go through the process you described.
  12. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Mar 18, 2007
    Begin Op Zoom
  13. Mike_a

    Mike_a aspiring adventurer

    Mar 5, 2011
    Southern California
    I don't think a motorcycle license should be more like a pilots license, I think a pilots license should be more like a motorcycle license. I value personal responsibility, your life is in your own hands, its not the governments job to protect you from yourself.
  14. wmax351

    wmax351 Been here awhile

    Mar 13, 2011
    Marin County and Berkeley, CA
    I suppose the main difference is that if you crash a bike, you kill yourself. You crash a car you kill someone else. You crash a plane you kill anyone under you and yourself. And if people are afraid of planes dropping out of the sky and killing people, it would be bad. :norton
  15. BeerIsGood

    BeerIsGood Guest

    On any given day, any one in this country can buy a motorcycle, a gun, and a house and then proceed protest publicly that the process was way too easy. "Merica!!!!" Don't fuck it up!!!!!
  16. Woland

    Woland Wannabe adventurer

    May 3, 2009
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Pretty much what we have in Sweden as well, but then we suffer under they yoke of socialism :evil
  17. Disco Stu

    Disco Stu Long timer

    Oct 6, 2006
    The Center of my Own Universe
    I've never heard of this before.
  18. RustyStuff

    RustyStuff Long timer

    Jan 14, 2012
    We can do the training here in WA and get a licence, instead of Just doing teh DMV test. But many wont even cough up $40 for the DMV test+ lisence, Much less than the $250+ tax and fees for the training.
    Not like it would stop squids from rideing without a licence and insurance anyway. It would only hurt/help those who actualy get the training and lisence.
  19. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

    Dec 31, 2008
    Wellington,New Zealand
    I am with the previous poster who asked why aret ALL licenses treated as seriously as a plane license?
  20. hrolf

    hrolf neophyte

    May 26, 2010
    city on a hill
    I was going to say, he just described Finland, home of more rally and F1 winners than anywhere else. They have a seriously great driving culture.

    You can get away with this in a small country with good public transportation -- and, in fact, you should. It's A/The Right Idea, depending on what you're culturally optimizing for.

    In the US, it's not currently plausible to have a driving elite, because we're a friggin huge country that has systematically and intentionally destroyed its intercity public transportation networks in favor of car traffic. The result is that lots of yobbos who really have no business behind the wheel own cars out of necessity.