If the Terra/Strada dies, would BMW resurrect the X bikes?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Butters, May 23, 2013.

  1. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    While it is still unclear whether the Husky Terra/Strada will continue, one thing is clear - they seem to sell well. Another Terra/Strada thread got me thinking . . .

    If the TR bikes disappear, there is clearly a void that could be filled. I see no reason why BMW couldn't tweak the G650GS engine and put it in a lighter package similar to the Terra/Strada or even just use some of the old X bike pieces. Essentially making a new X-Challenge without an airshock and with reasonable fuel capacity.

    The only questions, in my mind, would be could they do it for the same $6995 as Husky and would it hamper sales of the G650GS?

    Yes, this is pure conjecture/speculation, but I don't see why a manufacturer wouldn't want to fill a niche that clearly has a demand. And BMW could do it from the parts bin.
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  2. trainman

    trainman Been here awhile

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    Someone said on the Husqvarna 650 Terra Forum that Pierer the buyer of Husky from BMW did not get the 650 Terra and Strada in the deal, I don't know if this is true or not. If BMW brings back the 650 X-Challenge style of bike it will not be anywhere close to the Husky price, I would guess around $8500 to $9000 list price. Since the X-Challenge was only produced in 2007 for one year they are getting harder to find, plus the bike was not a good seller at that time. I don't think that anyone really knows where this is going, but Pierer himself. I would also say that BMW probably owns the rights to the Rotax 650 engine used in the Husky and I just don't see them turning loose of it to another manufacture, would you.

    John
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  3. Mk5mike

    Mk5mike Been here awhile

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    God I hope so.
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  4. Roadscum

    Roadscum Long timer

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    Perhaps BMW has a new motor in the works to replace the current Rotax, then what?

    Regards, Paul
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  5. snailrider

    snailrider Prostpector

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    Maybe Pierer has a deal going where he works directly with rotax and the design team of the other brands to bring an even more awesome bike alive.

    BMW has made it clear they do not want any part of that market. They are now focusing on HIGH END big scooters.

    They let the R80GS die, the bike that won the Dakar and gave them credibility.

    The Terra will be a rare gem, take care of it.
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  6. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    Rotax has not manufactured this engine since 2009. Rotax may have had a part in the design of the engine originally, but the design is owned by BMW not Rotax.

    The current manufacture is Loncin, a Chinese company. They make the engine under license from BMW. As of October 10/13/2012 their contract prohibited them from selling the engine to anyone except BMW or for their own internal use. That is according to Mike Shew, Loncin deputy General Manager.

    Husqvarna made some substantial changes to the engine by upping compression, hotter cams, bigger valves, improved cylinder head and changes in ignition. The engine design is still owned by BMW because they owned Husqvarna and the original engine design.

    I would like to see the improvements applied to a BMW bike, but I don't think it will happen. They did not do it with the Nuda improvements on the F800 engine.

    It is an Opinion but, BMW ended the F650 single production in 2007. BMW killed production of the X bikes. They did bring back the 650 in G650 and Sertao form, due to popular demand, but they are not much different than they were pre 2007. They just do not seem to have much interest in this bike.
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  7. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    i'd say both groups are going to compete in this segment.

    the affordable 650 dual-sport has gotten alot of press these days from many directions. I keep reading how this and that editor also also has a DR650 at home and loves it as his kick around bike. DRs and KLRs sell out fast as they are the modern affordable standard. both BMW and KTM are aware of how the TR is selling at that magical price point. affordable transport with 50+mpg will only be stronger in demand these days. look at Honda's strategy.

    it's BMW engine for sure even if they tweak the engine mods some. that engine might even be the basis for HP versions of the G bike. what will be interesting is what become of the rest of the package/frame. does that go to KTM or BMW or by by? no way do I see unique Husky tank design carrying over in a BMW world if it goes to BMW. does KTM care enough for the package minus the motor to have fought for it? Pierer only talked about the end of the Nuda at this point.

    [​IMG]
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  8. byron555

    byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer

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    Well then they should be the entry level bikes on the BMW line. The model is already developed, $0 additional in cost there. Just change the color of the plastics and badges, keep the MSRP the same. Bigger dealer network will equal much bigger sales. Combine the name of the old x bikes and the husky names ie x-terra and x-strada. Market them as competition with the DR650 etc.

    These are good bikes it would seem, and it would be a shame to see them die only after a year. The sales would have been better had Husky had a bigger dealer network, of that I am sure.
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  9. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    BMW did not want to be in the off-road market (enduros and 2 strokes).
    They made no mention they are giving up the 650 ADV/Dual-sport segment and their G offers support this. These are transportation bikes and BMW is all about transportation.
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  10. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    I'd say that is the hope of most, existing TR owners for sure.

    In the end the chances of BMW doing this are far greater than KTM moving a variation forward. BMW has no problem selling heavier machines with simpler tech vrs KTM's people who desire cutting edge.

    Don't see the Terra MSRP staying the same as BMW will 100% want ABS put back on in the US as they are now a 100% ABS company.
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  11. a1fa

    a1fa Throttle Jockey™

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    :lurk
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  12. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    BMW is going to have an interest (like any company) in what they think they can sell the most of. BMW's fray into the X world was their thought/attempt they could compete and win in the 450 & 650 enduro world. I'd say the F650 went away, not because of interest, but because they thought the X bikes would rule (ie sell) instead. Didn't play out and the F comes back as the G.

    Of course BMW never admits they are wrong so the "official" story is our customers demanded the F650 come back so here it is. BMW just then quickly restarted production with a slight visual refresh. Nothing more than a biz decision $$$ to get back in the selling game fast in that segment.

    I think you assume they are sitting around thinking how to make this bike the very best possible or not , as a gauge of their bike interest. They sit around and think, what does it take to sell as many as possible w/o incurring alot of additional expense.

    Now back to the TR. If BMW truly has full right to this design as is, then yes there is a very strong chance it will come back out as a BMW bike as they have shown they like to keep selling bikes that have been designed and paid for. They might play some with the plastics like they did with the F to G resurrection.
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  13. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    "I think you assume they are sitting around thinking how to make this bike the very best possible or not , as a gauge of their bike interest. They sit around and think, what does it take to sell as many as possible w/o incurring alot of additional expense."

    I own a F800gs, I don't think that at all. Its a business, they would not be in the business if their product did not sell at a profit. Do you suppose maybe that is why they sold Husqvarna?

    You may be right about bringing back the 650 back in G650 form being a business decision. They did it after changing to Loncin for engine manufacture. Probably just a cost consideration. Here is a chilling thought, Loncin has a F800 assembly line. You don't suppose at some point there will Chinese 800 engines being made?


    The less sophisticated G650 and Sertao, sell for a lot more than the Terra/Strada. Everyone wants a Terra like bike, at the current price. They could sell thousands of them. Everyone seems to forget that Husqvarna lost money. What makes any one think that BMW could produce a Terra like bike at a Terra like price? I clearly stated that my opinion was that they won't. You got a different one that's OK too. My observation is if their current products sells, why spend more money on it?
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  14. byron555

    byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer

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    Have the "terra" be the cheapest with no ABS exactly as it is now, and the Strada with ABS for x amount more.

    The X-challenge was ahead of it's time (in terms of the market) and had some MSRP add-ons that sucked (eg the air shock). The Husky Terra is the right bike (overall) at the right price, at the right time for the heavyweight dual sport market/middle weight adv bike market. The fastest growing segment of the motorcycle market.

    If BMW kept the Terra/Strada models, I am sure they have a plan...
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  15. satur9

    satur9 angry black guy

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    I doubt they keep any variant. The new g650gs is still using x bike parts.i would like to see them follow husky by upgrading the engine to the g650gs (and usd forks while at it) but they have laid claim that the 650gs is their stepping stone entry level bike I doubt they go cheaper. Its a bmw its not supposed to be cheap.
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  16. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    Some of the reasons I could see BMW being able to sell the bikes cheaper than they initially sold the X bikes are:

    1) The engines are now totally(?) sourced from Loncin, which I assume is a fair bit cheaper than the 2007 Rotax engines. Although I don't think they reduced prices on the X-Country when those bikes had the Loncin engines after 2007.

    2) By marketing as entry level (even though a better bike than the G IMHO), they could offer it with a 1 year warranty rather than the typical 3 year warranty.

    3) I can't imagine the airshock was truly much more money than a conventional shock. But maybe there's some savings there.

    4) Lastly, they could view the bike as a loss leader. Even if you only break even or even lose some money initially, you get more people in the shop to buy apparel and accessories (high margins) and later they return to buy a $16K-$20K R or K bike.

    But the fact is, if they can't come close to the price of the TR bikes, it is moot. While I love my X-Challenge, it wouldn't have even been on my radar at its initial MSRP. But when Max BMW was closing them out at $5995 it was a no brainer. Other than the weight disadvantage, the TR bikes have some very compelling points over the X bikes: fuel range, conventional suspension, smooth engine, and no expansive battery issues to taint a new bike to market.

    But whether they could sell them side by side with the G bikes is another question. I'm curious how the BMW/Husky dealers dealt with that when they had both bikes in the showroom.
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  17. Kawidad

    Kawidad Long timer

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    You correctly mentioned the fact that Husky lost money for BMW, but what seemed to have happened (by reading various internet press reports) is that BMW dumped a metric ton of money into rebuilding the Italian Husky plant, but it was all for naught. Because by reports, when Pierer took over Husky he was shocked to find the new facility was a disaster and not financially worth saving, and may be the reason BMW wanted a lightening quick sale. And, that's why he's closing it down and moving Husky production to Austria.

    What that tells me, among other things, is that BMW is not really run by motorcycle guys who have a true enthusiast understanding of the market, so any decisions corporate BMW make are not made from the enthusiast prospective. To me, BMW is a car company that happen to make some motorcycles. Like the X line using a air shock that is pure automotive technology, and a lot of their motorcycle designs are based on automotive technologies and not established motorcycle technologies. The X line and the G450s were good attempts, but hampered by a lack of understanding of the market and manufacturing a product to satisfy that market.
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  18. O'B

    O'B Long timer

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    If you have followed the 650 class for any length of time you would have seen that BMW has sold a shitload of 650's and that the customers that have bought these bikes have overall more of less liked the delivered package. But in all those years of sales they were all clamouring for something less portly, better offroad, better suspension ect ect. Bmw tried to answer these requests with the Xbike. Luckily the Engineers at BMW knew they could not deliver what the customer wanted and still fall into the financial constraints imposed by BMW corporate. So what you ended up with is a compromise of sorts that fell in between the original F650 platform and what the public was clamouring for for years. Now nobody was pleased. Complaints such as the gastank was to small not enough range, the electrical system was to weak, blau blau blau. Well somebody in the Eng dept must actually adventure travel because the design adopted was brilliant in its own right as it allowed for upgrading components for the serious traveler will still delivering a decent package initially. The X when knew was an expensive bike let alone the cost of upgrading the components. But now that you can pick up a low mileage X for 4500-5000 it is a steal for the person who wants to upgrade the suspension and turn it into a personal long range travel motorcycle. The Husky seems like a real nice bike and in a few years when the low mileage used one appear on the market they will probably be a steal. I am not a BMW guy but I really like the X bikes. Disagree get on one a zip around the neighborhood. :lol3
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