Important Harley twin cam info

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by YOUNZ, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. AZbiker

    AZbiker Crunkin' with crackers

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,954
    Location:
    Phoenix, in the Arcadia area
    Me either. Maybe people think parallel pushrods, and their attendant superior geometry, are ugly? :dunno
  2. plugeye

    plugeye unforgiven

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,888
    Location:
    Garland, Texas
    probably epa pressure.
    all those gears make more noise
  3. Bar None

    Bar None Candy Ass

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,088
    Location:
    WNC SWFL
    JerryH ,
    I was on the XT225 forum when you got run off because of the crazy stuff you recommended like washing your hands in gasoline. You went off in a huff and formed your own XT225 group on Yahoo and maybe you had two members. Maybe you are back now, I don't know since I sold my XT225 and left the forum.
  4. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    17,704
    Location:
    Hide Away Hills, Ohio
    While the dude on the yellow Gold Wing was a great rider and was damn fast through the dragon on a GOLD WING, while riding a Gold Wing he was not damn fast through the dragon in general. When he was a videographer for hire (that's what he did with the Wing - he had cameras all over it and would film people for a fee) I asked him about his ability to keep up with people on sport bikes. He was quite confident it wouldn't be an issue, and told me to follow him while he shot video of some folks who had just hired him.

    I followed him for about half of the run to the other end, got frustrated, passed them all and left them. When we all met up at the overlook he told me the folks he was taking video of were the reason the run was so slow, and he told me to follow him back through the dragon to see what he could really do. Again I followed him for about 1/3 of the 11 miles, passed him, and never looked back. When I saw him later at the gas station he started lecturing about how the objective isn't to run away from the camera. I reminded him I hadn't hired him and he wasn't taking video of me, the point was he said he would be able to keep up, but couldn't.

    I rode the '08 Gold Wing I used to own through the dragon several times. Certainly "Yellow Wolf" - as he was known - has skills, but as luxo-barges go the Gold Wing is relatively easy to ride fast.
  5. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,061
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Just what is wrong with washing your hands in gasoline? I am 53 and have been doing that since age 8. If you are worried about your smooth soft skin, I wouldn't recommend it. I have also been using gasoline as a parts cleaner all my life. It may be expensive as a fuel, but it is the cheapest and most effective cleaner available for removing grease.

    I never got "run off" I got fed up with one particular member in particular (you know who I mean) who claimed to know everything but from his posts almost certainly never worked on anything mechanical. I finally decided to just ignore him.
  6. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,061
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    That video shows very well why "production" engines don't hold up very well. You don't just throw an engine together like that. Building an engine is a time consuming process, done entirely by hand except for the machine work, and everything is carefully measured. True "perfection" does not exist, but you can certainly come a LOT closer to it than they do in a factory. Auto engines do not use roller bearings, and about all I know about them their design, and the fact that they require a lot less oil pressure than plain bearings. They are used in 2 stroke engines where there is no oil pressure. IMO, Harley should use side by side connecting rods, a single piece crank, and rods with replaceable bearings and bolt on bearing caps.Bearing clearances in an auto engine are measured with "Plastigage", which means all the bearings must be installed, and the caps have to be assembled and torqued, then disassembled. Sometimes several times before you get it just right. Bearing journals are measured in several places to check for taper and out of round, as are cylinders and pistons. Everything is very carefully assembled by hand, and every bolt is torqued by hand, in several steps, and in a criss cross pattern until final torque is reached. Auto engine cranks are a one piece casting or forging. they are not "pressed together" That is a recipe for disaster. Parts, especially bearings, are not handled roughly like in the video, and assembly lube is used on everything. Most motorcycle cranks are of the "pressed together" type, which must be welded to hold together. It also means the bearings are not replaceable. The entire crank assembly, including the crank, bearings, and rods must be replaced as a unit. So it is impossible to be sure the clearances are correct from the factory.
  7. ikonoklass

    ikonoklass Kountersteering Krew

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Oddometer:
    2,615
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Please forgive me my ignorance.

    I always thought the cam chain issue was caused by the little rubber shoe that came into contact with metal. Sometimes it held up fine, but other times it wore down until you had metal on metal. So why can't you just go in periodically and replace the little rubber thingy? Seems like it would be cheap and pretty easy.
  8. ShardPhoenix

    ShardPhoenix Наглый ублюдок

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Oddometer:
    917
    Location:
    Grants Pass, Oregon

    Was his name JerryH?
  9. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    19,778
    Location:
    Begin Op Zoom

    :rofl
  10. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    17,704
    Location:
    Hide Away Hills, Ohio
    Yet more ignorance.

    If you knew anything about the motor design you'd already know the reason why Harley uses a forked connecting rod design instead of side by side connecting rods.

    Additionally, if you truly care about tolerances while building an engine you would not use plastigage to measure bearing clearances. Plastigage is a production product for production building, the use of which can have unintended negative consequences in a blueprint build.

    You should quit while you're behind and go back to the xt225 forum. You aren't impressing anyone here.
  11. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    9,090
    Location:
    the hills
    For such an all knowing individual you sure do ask some dumb questions.
  12. fritzcoinc

    fritzcoinc Enjoying my last V8

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Oddometer:
    8,068
    Location:
    Hockley, Tx
    Ok. FYI here's what these tensioners look like. These are from an all stock well maintianed 03 88" at 56K miles. As found at tear down condition. In 07 harley changed to hydraulic tensioners and a higher volumum oil pump along with more ridged cam plate.

    Outer ( and tool I made to release the outer tensioner )

    [​IMG]

    Inner ( tore it down just in time )

    [​IMG]

    trash from the tensioners took out the return side of the oil pump

    [​IMG]
  13. The Dirty One

    The Dirty One Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    135
    Location:
    Horsepasture Va. Baby!!!
    Best I can tell,there are about two,maybe four contributors replying to this thread that actually have a clue what they are taking about and have spent more time holding wrenches that computer keyboards and mouses. The rest just show they can google stuff all day but still don't have a elfin clue how to fix anything.what is adventure rider coming to? Lol
    I'm still laughing my arse off at the poster on the first page of this ridiculous discussion that thinks evos had cam chains......
  14. Tepi

    Tepi Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Oddometer:
    544
    Location:
    Helsinki/Heinola Finland
    Seriously, you really think car engines are hand assembled in the factories, with hand tools? Lol, maybe aston martin, rolls royce or some other fucking expensive car. Not your chevy malibu or ford taurus. Engines are assembled by mostly robotics now, they can pump out cars for the masses at a fast rate.
  15. Bar None

    Bar None Candy Ass

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,088
    Location:
    WNC SWFL
    JerryH,
    Every think that washing your hands and arms in gasoline might be part of the cause of your current health problems.

    JerryH got run off the XT225 forum contrary to what he now claims happened.
  16. slipknot

    slipknot Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    967
    components of gasoline include: benzene, toluene, and xylene; and the additives ethanol, methanol, and methyl tertiary butyl ether

    At least three carcinogens in this group, absorbed through the skin and straight to the liver. Good luck.
  17. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    17,704
    Location:
    Hide Away Hills, Ohio
    All except MTBE, which is banned in his state. MTBE is bad, bad stuff and has been banned in about half of all states, with total phase out in the future.
  18. Berto

    Berto Inherently Floridian

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,021
    Location:
    Alachua, Fla
    visiting a friend in the burn unit because he set himself on fire using gas as a parts cleaner was a lesson I took to heart. Safety Kleen for me:deal
  19. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,061
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Plastigage is not used in production "assembly line" engine building. It takes way too much time. Yes there are better ways to build an engine, but you are talking about $10,000-$20,000+ engines, which require an absolute fortune in equipment and tools to build. I am a fleet services mechanic, who was "promoted" to working on mostly auto electronics a few years ago, one of the reasons I hate them so much. I build engines at home, in my own 2 car garage, which also serves as my workshop for everything else as well including bikes. I do not and never will have the resources to build super expensive engines, but I can sure do better than the factory. I have to outsource all my machine work. But the shop I use is good. I do have a scale for weighing parts, calipers and inside micrometers, an engine hone (several actually) and a number of other fairly simple tools. But boring, planing, decking, crank and cam grinding, etc can obviously not be done at home.

    As far as gasoline, I find it difficult that studly and gnarly adventurers would have a problem getting gas on their hands. And my medical problems (mostly arthritis) were not caused by gasoline. It's a genetic issue.

    I was not banned from XT225, and as a matter of fact just posted there today. I don't spend much time there, I have a lot of other interests besides the XT. I built my XT out of 3 different model years of bikes, plus a lot of aftermarket parts, some of them on the expensive side. It was built to the best specs I could afford, and will probably outlast me. Now all I have to do is ride it. I don't work in it anymore except maintenance.


    And while nobody has ever been banned from XT225, that is not the case here. So I am dropping out of this thread because I plan on staying around for a while. And after seeing how badly Harleys are made, there is a good chance I will never own one anyway, and if I do, it sure wont be a TC, the original topic of this thread.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.
  20. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    17,704
    Location:
    Hide Away Hills, Ohio
    "Production" refers to production rebuilding, as you might find in a more local shop. I didn't think it would be necessary to clarify that for someone as experienced as you allegedly are.

    As for the questions and discussions you skirted:

    The replacement for plastigage is a nothing more than a decent set of mics. It doesn't take a fortune in equipment to measure bearing oil clearance in an engine while avoiding the potential heat dam across a bearing that can be caused by plastigage-induced bearing material compression.

    Furthermore, the reason you can't put a side by side connecting rod arrangement in a Harley is because the cylinders aren't offset enough to accommodate such an arrangement.

    I agree you should bow out of the thread. Not for fear of a banning, but instead because its painful to watch you do this to yourself