Improving the 2005+ Montesa 4RT

Discussion in 'Trials' started by motobene, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    Hay LeShaghal, looks like you have yourself a great ride there!

    Glad you where able to get the suspension setup to your liking. I couldn't be happier with my new setup, worth all the eforts of doing it! :D I thought about picking up a set of red hoses just because I liked the way they looked but held out because the bike is in such good shape it just didn't seem necessary. Can't help with the creaking/cracking noise, I haven't had anything like that in the year I have owned my 07.

    My 2 cents: If you are getting into or like lifting the rear wheel at all I might suggest rolling the handlebars forward. Between the suspension changes and moving the bars forward, as outlined by motobene, I can now bring the rear up between 8 to 10" from a static balance. :evil Was able to do it better with just moving the bars before the suspension change but I can't knock 10"done from a static balance!


    I am sure you will have a great time with that bike! :freaky
  2. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Creaking noises: Elimination process: First do swing arm bearing and suspension linkages maintenance. Pack every bearing solid with grease. Pop off the shock eye spaces as well and grease the spherical bearings.

    Sorry, I missed the diagnostic. A squirt oil can applying oil to interfaces one-by-one. When the squeak goes away, that is your source of squeak. Or at least the last few oil applications is where it is, as it can take some seconds of oil to work its way in. And this can be in surprising places that are not bearing pivots, like dry frame-section interfaces and loose shock mounts.
  3. LeShaghal

    LeShaghal Adventurer

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    I have my bars back for Bernie Schreiber type riding (i.e. plunking) I can hop this thing like I'm on a trampoline but I feel like its cheating and my riding suffers. This way I'm forced to select clean lines.
    Thanks motobene
    I assumed I'd end up replacing every needle bearing rest of the brake pedal, just didn't know if there was a set that tended to wear 1st. No sense in repeating the mistakes of others.
  4. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    Hay can't/won't knock it if it works for you. :norton

    And good luck with the creaking, I am sure you will get that resolved.
  5. LeShaghal

    LeShaghal Adventurer

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    all new bearing set from sandiford, just got my pre oiled jitsie filters (look nice) got some of my little tiddelywinks swapped over to red anodized. new master cyl covers from vmar. I have a carbon 2 leg 315R front brake cover but it looks like its just going to blow up if I hit something. I'll probably Plasti-Dip my stock hexagon one black. Ordered some fender decals and fork guards. with any luck I'll have pictures up asap.
    Rode the bike last night took 15min or so for the clutch and I to get in the groove. cant wait for the weather to turn
  6. Thats_a_Five

    Thats_a_Five Adventurer

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    I finally got to changing the fork fluid in my ’05 4RT. One day of riding yesterday and I like the change. <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    First thing I want to remind people is to check the fork oil capacity before you start. I was a little surprised that each leg takes about 400 cc’s. I had ordered 1 bottle of the “Like Water” originally, then Motobene said the 2.5 would be better so I ordered a bottle of the 2.5. <o:p></o:p>
    After removing and draining the forks, I started filling with the 2.5. I split the 2.5 evenly between the forks then topped off with the “Like Water.” Final mix is about 2:1 Like water to 2.5. I left the clickers as they were – compression at 12 out, rebound at 20 out (max). I think I will back off on compression a little and go in on rebound a little. <o:p></o:p>
    One thing I really like about the new feel is the bike feels a little front end happy, which I prefer. Much easier to do little floater turns when rebounding off a small obstacle in the trail or section. So far the only negative I have found is more “stiction” to get the forks moving. I wonder if it was always there but covered up by the slow fork rate. I don’t notice it when riding, just when sitting on the bike during rest breaks. <o:p></o:p>
    Overall, I really loved the bike when I got it and I think I have improved it considerably with the suggestions on this thread: 2 springs out of the clutch, rear shock at minimum rebound, front forks with lighter oil and less rebound. I also switched to a fast throttle tube. Good for more snap over obstacles. <o:p></o:p>
    Thanks to Motobene and KrAzyOSUcOwBoy for giving me the knowledge and confidence to make these changes. Now if you just had some extra skill that you could add to my limited supply. . . :muutt<o:p></o:p>
  7. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    You are welcome. Nice to see willingness to risk to get rewards.

    I have been a bit reticent on really fast forks lately because I found I was bouncing off stuff a bit with the Raga 300. After the last event, I added more clicks on the adjusters to slow the front end and shock a bit, but the Raga is way faster than the stock 4RT so it's a nuance. Do think you can get a bit fast on the Showa forks and some percentage of Like Water though, if you don't take care to calm them with some clicks, especially on the supplemental compression adjuster at bottom of the one fork. But fast forks can for sure be fun.
  8. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Well I have received my full rear end bearing set, a new tub of maxima waterproof grease to load the bearings up with, my redline for the forks and shock, new clutch and brake fluid, new pads, a bottle of new coolant and a host of notes from this thread ready to transform my 4RT!

    Just 32 days till I get home from this job till I can start the fun!

    Also got a rekluse to try in my ktm and my wheels are away being powder coated and my tired ohlins shock is getting a strip and service.

    I literally cannot wait to get home to my workshop and get to work on them!!

    :-)
  9. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Love seeing your zeal to wrench and ride!
  10. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Well I work away from the world for 85 days at a time and there isn't sufficient internet speed to stream vids and there's nothing to do out of work.

    I love spannering as much as riding. Its the engineer in me wanting to make everything perfect I think.


    Anyway 31 and a bit days now....
  11. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Hi all.

    Silly question but how do you get the seal cover off the shock? The one with 2 opposing holes.

    I assumed grub screws and then the whole thing unscrewed but I can't find and grub screws or get it to unscrew!
  12. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Got it sorted. Shock cleaned and refilled with redline like water. Gassing it up today and changed all the bearings and fitted an aftermarket linkage kit.

    New bushes going in the forks and redline 2.5 going in them on the rebuild.

    Removed 2 clutch springs and left the original oil in for now.

    Just fitting new wheel bearings as well while its all apart and she's ready to ride!

    Excited now lol
  13. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Let us know the results!
  14. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    Yes please keep us updated on how she rides!
  15. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Well I have fitted the aftermarket linkage plates, gassed the shock up and fitted that. The rear wheel will be going on once iv had a brew!

    I took the time to open up the new wheel bearings and pack them with waterproof grease while I was in there.

    Next job is to grease the head bearings with the waterproof grease and then I'm just waiting on the correct bushes to arrive to rebuild the forks as they had sent me the wrong ones!

    I sell my old KTM tomorrow and I'm picking up a new Beta 250 RR on Friday.

    Gonna be a good week all round!!
  16. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    Still no bushes in yet so I can't put the forks back together.

    I'm thinking of going 50/50 with like water / 2.5 extra light in the forks.

    It may be a little fast in the summer but it should be perfect for the remaining 350 days of the year in the UK!

    Any thoughts on this?
  17. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I have 50/50 in my forks and it took more clicks to slow it down and I am expecting 2 to 4 more clicks in the summer out here. (I seem to remember about 2 to 4 clicks more than half way, would have to check to be sure)

    With the 2.5 and re-valve in the rear its about the same, at 1 click more than half way. So with running like water in the rear shock and the front 50/50 I am going to guess it will feel close.

    Hope that gives you something more to go on.
  18. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    My earlier recommendation for Like Water in the forks changed from test rides on KrAzy's bike and observing him in sections. I saw too much reacting to hits, though the fast forks helped make the bike more lively. If it were my bike I'd be playing with a mix of 2.5 and 5, and seeing if I still had the flexibility in the adjusters.

    The tradeoff is between ride control and hopping ease, and you all have to be the judge of that. The rear shock is more of a problem than the front forks regarding slowness, and my

    So what is ride control? I deal ride control is closer to what is called a critically damped system, that is, between too fast and too slow:

    [​IMG]

    Again, that is subjective, and subject to the peculiar needs of trials. What is critically damped on a road bike would feel like frozen glue on a trials bike. The pertinent question is to ask is, "Am I taking more points than I should in events because the reactions to bigger hits are throwing me off my line?" Or, "Am I struggling with weight/unweight timing because the bike is way behind what I want to do?" Somewhere in between is where you want to be.
  19. Thats_a_Five

    Thats_a_Five Adventurer

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    I am running 50/50 mix exactly as you described in my forks. Started with clickers all the way out and have gradually turned them in. I think I am 4 in on rebound (top) and 3 in on compression (bottom).

    Rear shock is still stock, clicker all the way out.

    I am still riding in novice to intermediate level so no big hits (Not on purpose, anyway).

    Our weather in the USA, Pacific North-wet is very similar to UK so I agree with you about being good for 350 days per year like this. The other days are too hot to ride anyway!
  20. andilicious

    andilicious Adventurer

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    I'm going to go 25 % like water / 75 % extra light and see how that feels. If there's not enough damping when I get to full clicks I'll do some messing about.

    I don't really ride trials comps, its 60% play bike and 40% training for enduro so I'm not too critical of setup but I do like my bikes right!