In memory of Jim Adams - an R60/5 build diary

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by backdrifter, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    Scratch that last question - I found this photo that answered my questions. I did a quick check and everything looks OK. I'll have to open the headlight again and check all the wiring there. If that seems to check out, then I may need to consider a new starter relay (though it was working before the tear down).

    [​IMG]
  2. georgesgiralt

    georgesgiralt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    165
    Before buying a new starter relay, try to trace the fault.
    Take the wire I forced you to make before, and put he +12V at the output of the starter relay which should go to the starter. If the wire between the starter relay and the relay is sound, the starter motor should turn and drive the flywheel.
    The try to energize the starter relay itself with the same wire; this way you will check the starter relay itself.... ETC ETC...
    This method of fault tracing is often used in electronics where you inject a signal in the path it should follow going from the final destination to the source to find the stage at fault...
    Here, it will also help you check the wiring because you'll have to find which wire to energize...
    Before I leave, tell me, you had the starter motor running and cranking the engine with the wire on the spade terminal and the B+ ? And not only a "klonk"
  3. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    I had only waited to hear the "klonk" of the solenoid last time, but I just went out and tried again, and sure enough when connecting the spade and the B+ terminal with a wire the starter motor engaged, and it turned the engine over. It was actually pretty exciting to hear the bike turn over for the first time in two years!

    But alas, still no starter button.
  4. georgesgiralt

    georgesgiralt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    165
    So the starter is working fine.
    Tomorrow, try to trace the fault either to a bad component or to the wiring.
    Try to add a fuse like 8Amps in series with your tracing wire in order not to set fire on the bike if "something wrong" happens...
    You are near the goal ! Keep on !
  5. Lolthatguy

    Lolthatguy Has a Zombie House

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,087
    Location:
    Australia
    Keep going mate!! :clap
    Fantastic job on this bike. Keep at the problems! I want to see a video of this bike when it starts for the first time!
  6. enzorover

    enzorover Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    52
    Location:
    New Jersey
    My suggestion...
    Stop using a jumper wire and the battery to trace wires!
    Go get a multi meter. There should be a continuity function on it somewhere. When you touch the meter leads together the meter should beep.
    You should be able to pick one up for $15 to $1500.
  7. georgesgiralt

    georgesgiralt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    165
    enzorover,
    I do usually agree with you. But in this particular case, I don't. Why ? because a continuity test with an hyper sensitive equipment will see through oxidized wires. And having a wire let pass a few microamps is not the same as the same wire apt to pass through 10 A to energize a starter's solenoid.
    This is why I told him to use a positive, fused, wire.
    We are not only looking at false wiring, we are looking at bad wires also.
    But you're right, a multimeter is the safest way to go, normally.
  8. enzorover

    enzorover Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    52
    Location:
    New Jersey

    Good point.
    Since it worked before the rebuild I was just assuming there was a simple wiring issue.
    Yeah, tracking electrical demons through 40yr old wires sucks.
  9. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    Thanks guys. I got frustrated and didn't want to work in the cold garage on Sunday, so I haven't made any more progress. I'll give it another shot soon.

    I truly believe something is just wired incorrectly. We now know the starter motor and solenoid work beyond a doubt. The starter relay was brand new when I bought it two years ago (I bought it because I had fried the old one by trying to jump the bike and grounding out on the frame), and it worked before I took the bike apart. I have no reason to believe that it shouldn't still work now.

    That leads me to believe wiring, and I'm already suspicious of the right hand/starter switch wiring because mine was from an older 1974 model and had wires that the 1973 bikes and circuits didn't have or need. I'm guessing I did something funky when wiring the right hand/starter switch. I'll take another look soon.

    Thanks for all of the help!
  10. georgesgiralt

    georgesgiralt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    165
    Keep on !
    You are so close to the goal, now !
    It is a matter of thinking and a few minute work.
    If you have the schematic, and a multimeter you can find which wire comes out the right hand switch and comes from the starter button. Then you will be able to wire it properly...
    If you remove the right hand switch from the bike, you can work this out in the comfort of the house. (and can post questions or get schematics ) from the internet... to compare from...
  11. Rinty

    Rinty Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Oddometer:
    621
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Just found this thread. Great story, and glad you got your title. :thumb

    When you eventually pass this beautiful bike on to your kids, they will know there is a lot of "you" and Papa in it. Also, you could print out this thread, put it in a three ring binder, and they will have the whole story.
  12. Tin Woodman

    Tin Woodman Gregg

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    219
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    You're on the threshold of success - best of luck!
  13. Flipczak

    Flipczak Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    32
    Location:
    Harrison Twp., Michigan
    "That leads me to believe wiring, and I'm already suspicious of the right hand/starter switch wiring because mine was from an older 1974 model and had wires that the 1973 bikes and circuits didn't have or need. I'm guessing I did something funky when wiring the right hand/starter switch. I'll take another look soon."

    I think your on the right track. The '74 model has a starter cut-off switch. The clutch lever has to be pulled in for the starter to engage. This may help http://www.p-thomas.com/shared/BMW/74 R90 Wiring.pdf
  14. Tin Woodman

    Tin Woodman Gregg

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    219
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    With ignition switch on, do the plugs spark when you kick the engine over manually with the kick starter?
  15. Paul_Rochdale

    Paul_Rochdale Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Oddometer:
    150
    Location:
    Aylesford, Kent, UK
    I think the fault lies with the wheel rims. Strip off the black powdercaoting and polish the rims. It'll be sure to fire up first time:D
  16. WhisperTheWind

    WhisperTheWind Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Oddometer:
    15
    Location:
    Duluth, MN
    You didn't fry the diode board when you shorted things out a while back, did you?
  17. georgesgiralt

    georgesgiralt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    165
    Hello Backdrifter,
    Are you still here ?
    Is the bike running ? We can't wait ! We need to know !
    :ear
  18. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    Gents,

    Thanks for all the follow-ups, comments, and suggestions, they are truly much appreciated! :thumb

    I got very bogged down with new responsibilites at work recently, so I haven't touched the bike in nearly a month. Excuses, excuses.

    But, I went out for 15 minutes today and I'm happy to say that I had a breakthrough. Remember the blue and yellow wire in the photo below?

    [​IMG]

    I had it mounted in the right place. After speaking with some of you very knowledgeable inmates, we determined that for whatever reason, I have a 1974 starter switch on my 1973 bike. The wires are a bit different, and the 1973 would not have had the blue/yellow wire at all. So, I removed it from the ground that I had it mounted on in the photo above thinking it was unneeded. Turns out that was a bad assumption on my part! I'm not pretending to fully understand it, but it turns out it is needed. I have a fantastic reference sheet from Renner that descirbes what each color combo of wires does. When I saw that blue/yellow means a ground for the starter relay, it certainly seemed like a no brainer. I connected it back to the grounding bracket in the photo above, hit the starter, and heard a click, but nothing more. Took a closer look and realized I had forgotten to re-mount the black wire to the spade connector on the starter solenoid. Connected that as well, and lo-and-behold, she turned over! It still didn't seem like it was turning over well though. Not sure if the battery has sat in the cold garage for too long and needs a top off. It was a brand new battery, so I wouldn't think so, but I'll investigate further. I still need to get new carb float bowl o-rings before I can fire her again, but we're getting closer!

    Thanks for all the support, guys! :clap
  19. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    You suck Paul! :lol3
  20. backdrifter

    backdrifter Wannabe rider

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,369
    Location:
    Belleville, IL
    I just tried starting the bike for kicks. I think the float bowl gaskets have actually swollen enough that they're sealing again. It turned over pretty well, but it would not start. I checked the spark as you suggested. I pulled on plug out at a time and rested it and grounded it on the aluminum cylinders. I hit the starter and cranked it, and did not see spark.

    So, it looks like I have a separate spark issue as well. Any suggestions on where to begin looking for the root cause on this issue?

    Edit, because I saw this mentioned in another similar thread: my neutral switch is not wired yet, would this matter?

    I don't believe so. I had the same thought while still troubleshooting the starter. I had an extra diode board and both were good (last I knew). I swapped one out for the other and it didn't change anything.