Intresting valve !!

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by shearboy2004, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    This reminds me of some goings on when I was working in aviation. My boss and I just delivered a set of Travel Air speed wings to a guy. There in his hanger was one beat up Travel Air fuselage. The thing about it was that the paperwork proved it had been a highly sought after D4D before it became a crop duster and was worked and ground looped into the state it was in. The customer was trying to talk my boss into splicing a longeron ONE more time and my boss was saying sorry but that fuselage is done. But look at all the repairs that have already been done to it, the owner said. One more won't hurt. The old barn stormers did this sort of repair all the time. That's when I spoke up and said, yes, but they were flying their own repairs. It's OK to kill yourself but if we do it that's another matter!
    #21
  2. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    Yep I have seen that before , the valves will be out today and I'll check the guides .I will also take the heads down to a small engineering shop here locally and see what they think. They do a lot of work on British and German stuff especially old shit .
    #22
  3. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    Valves out and there ain't going to be any short cuts for me ! The guides are fucked ! Flopping around like a Nevada lady of the night !:lol3

    So guides, seats and valve and should replace springs too .[​IMG]

    Fuckityfuckfuck:cry
    #23
  4. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

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    You may not have to replace seats; they are generally not a problem. Valves and guides, and recut the seats to match. You may want to go with 45deg valves instead of the 30deg that were stock. You can usually recut the existing seats for that.

    But the guy who does the work should be the final judge of that.
    #24
  5. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    It's only money. You'll make more.:D
    #25
  6. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    #26
  7. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    I didn't replace my exhaust seats with 101,000 miles on them when I did (robtg did!) my valve job but I didn't have hammered valves either. From my experience I would not use those seats and I bet robtg wouldn't either. It helps a lot to have some good experience replacing those seats! The seat boss walls AND floors are often warped and require cutting. The proper interference fit helps! Chances are you will be way better off going to 45* valves. Robtg uses GOOD guides. They do differ. Sunnen honed to fit is the best way to go, not pre-sized like BMW guides. Reamed guides? Compared to a Sunnen hone a ream is like using a chisel. I have seen the heads torn up getting them out too. There is no need for it! Good luck!

    I just saw the photos. You pulled those valves in the NICK of time!!!!
    #27
  8. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    Yeah I don't think that will buff out even with "Mothers" :lol3
    #28
  9. Beemerguru

    Beemerguru Beemerguru...G/S guy

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    Still have the BMW emissions plumbing installed?

    Bob will do the head right the first time...even dual plug them if you want..the only thing he doesn't do are replacing the exhaust threads..go to Hanson's in Medford for that fix.
    #29
  10. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    It was still there when I got it but I removed it fairly quickly .

    I would love to use ADVers for the work but shipping and such would be a pain , I will be popping down to Acme my local engineers to see what they can do for me later today and to get some idea of the cost , it may have to go on the backburner for a while . A recent divorce has left me kinda strapped for cash right now .
    #30
  11. Big Bamboo

    Big Bamboo Aircooled & Sunbaked

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    Our member robtg is THE MAN for getting head work done right, and he is only a USPS Flat Rate box away...
    #31
  12. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    There are other places that do good work too but man is it hard to find good valve machine work! A good part of the job is keeping up with the ever changing parts situation as well. There is a lot of crap parts out there and knowing which ones work and which ones don't work nearly as well is very important! Robtg just did my last valve job and that was on my OWN bike! I like the way he dual plugs too. Using a Sunnen valve guide hone is a must for me and robtg uses one.
    #32
  13. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    Well Guys I took everything down to Acme Engineering for John to have a look at , he laughed at the valve but said he has seen them like that before . He added that he never understood why BMW used the 30 degree setting and would use Kibblewhite Valves and guides and would cut them to 45 degrees .
    Against the judgement of many here he also said he wouldn't bother with replacing seats unless he saw a problem while cutting them to 45 degrees .

    So for Kibblewhite valves and guides , a complete clean up of the heads with media blasting and fitting of valves and guides he is talking under $300 for both heads .

    Thoughts ?
    #33
  14. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    Can't beat the price. I don't care for those valves. I can't remember if it is their guides I like or I don't like. I like them if the are the same ones CC Products sells. Of course, they need to be sized with a Sunnen hone! The seats will be fine with a LOT of luck. I have seen what you are going to do NOT work a number of times over. Hopefully I am wrong THIS time!!! :)
    #34
  15. Lornce

    Lornce Lost In Place

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    Seats are kind of a crap shoot. I've seen lots of replaced seats fail over the years.

    I do my own guides and seat/face machining, but I only know one guy in Southern Ontario I'd trust to correctly remove and refit a valve seat.

    :dunno
    #35
  16. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    I have a Sherco 450 enduro engine that has poor Seats and I have enough faith in Acme that I will have them do the job where others say it shouldn't be done . Their work has always been very good . They have been around forever , Father to Son business .
    #36
  17. Lornce

    Lornce Lost In Place

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    Around forever can be a good thing. All the best, sounds like you're in good hands.

    :thumb
    #37
  18. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    I have seen a lot of just installed seats drop. I have never seen a properly installed seat drop! Some people NEVER figure out that too tight is as bad as too loose. In fact, too tight is too lose since if the seat is moving material versus compressing it, there is no interference fit!

    Around forever? I have found that that has absolutely no correlation with good work whatsoever. Only if it really was that simple! Some places have been tearing stuff up for a LONG time!
    #38
  19. ME 109

    ME 109 Long timer

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    6-7 thou was once mentioned as good interference iirc. Am I recalling correctly?
    #39
  20. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    I would say .007 is the number to shoot for but some of that is how you measure that ID. ID's are always easier to fudge than OD's IMO.
    #40