is 1.85 rim better than 2.15 ?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Gumbydave, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. ADVJake

    ADVJake ***** dweller

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    I'd be nervous running a 1.60 on a big adventure... maybe its just psychological. Do you still run a 90 width tyre?
    #21
  2. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    :scratch

    30K miles with mine and no dings or dents.

    A60's rule the off-road 950 world. Only rim I get get to stay straight riding hard!

    Pyn
    #22
  3. ADVJake

    ADVJake ***** dweller

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    Good to hear, im curious why KTM used a much wider rim though, when the smaller ones are much stronger?
    #23
  4. atgreg

    atgreg Africatwinarama

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    I run a 1.6 on the front of my AT750, no dramas, on the tar I cant tell any difference to the standard 1.85
    #24
  5. fire_strom

    fire_strom Long timer

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    Road contact patch size?

    What rim were the Dakar guys on? I'd guess smaller.
    #25
  6. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Which in turn gives better mileage out of your stock tires, which sounds better to buyers when a rear cost $250 for 10,000km which = 20,000km for the front. 2back for 1front.

    I'm not sure..... but I think they have rules in Europe regarding tire ware.

    For sure they had smaller rims for Dakar probably 160, 250.....
    #26
  7. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Goeie Grys Giftige Gert!

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    Rory, that was my issue with the dirtstar rim mate. Getting 2000kays out of a R1200 rear tyre is bloody expensive. 150TKC on a Dirtstar, was narrower than a 140TKC on a ADV Behr - and the rate of wear proved both. Ouch :umph
    #27
  8. Kiwi Pete

    Kiwi Pete Adventurer

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    I had a new rim put on in Ecuador a couple of years back (the roads there lull you in to a false sence of security then wham! ...you hit a seal change and your front tube's poking out). Turns out it was a 1.60 (Excel) which was fine for messing around over there but once back in the UK my bike had somehow turned in to a wobbly horrible, nay dangerous, beast on the road (but fine off road).

    I finally sourced a new rim (entire wheel, in fact, so I still have the 1.60 for off road) and it is back to it's stable best.

    Touratech are now listing a 21 X 2.15 Excel rim so they must have just started making them.

    I have no experience of a 1.85 so I can't comment on what they're like; but I do wonder how the Excel 2.15 will work out.

    Anyone got one yet?
    #28
  9. Dustodust

    Dustodust Long timer

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    the 2.15x 21 behr is standard on the adventure and it bends very easy. My experience with the excel takasago on dirt bikes is the same, they bend very very easy. I doubt that the standard excel is any better than the behr and the 2.15 will bend even easier than the 1.60
    best bet is excel A60 (not the standard takasago)
    or DID dirtstar (not the standard DID)



    If you want the dent resitance of a stronger/narrower rim, you can get the 1.85x 21 dirtstar DID from ktm listed for the '07 950 superenduro for about $285 but I decided to go with the Excel A60 1.60x 21 for better dent resistance at about the same cost after buying the custom built spokes to make it fit to the hub

    you can get an A60 1.60 x 21 on e-bay for about $180 but you will need a custom built spoke set to make it fit.
    the 950 SE front rim should fit using the standard adventure spokes , I havent tried it but the hole patterns seem to line up the same
    #29
  10. Misery Goat

    Misery Goat Positating the negative Super Moderator

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    I bent my Sun 1.85 in DV and didn't even realize it. The stock SE rim has done well by me so far.
    #30
  11. Dustodust

    Dustodust Long timer

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    I had a sudden flat (blowout) at over 100mph with a D-606 on the stock 2.15.
    the effect is a sudden pull to one side that you have to ride out until you can slow it down to 50mph , when I attempted to to correct it straight it felt like an emminent crash for sure, so I got back over it and control returned at the lower speed and I rode it another 30 miles at 50 moph before changing the tube
    I would doubt that the narrower rim would be a disadvantage in this scenario. In fact it should be a benefit in that 1. the bead would hold better before allowing the tire to flop to one side causing the bike to pull to one side and 2. less friction contact of the tire with the road to build heat and blow out the tube
    #31
  12. 4play

    4play Next?

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    I'm running a 1.6 A60 on my 990. It corners fine, no problems at hwy speeds with 606/608RR combo.
    #32
  13. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    Yo tambien.
    #33
  14. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    this question pops up perennially....

    and the above is my final answer with a few caveats,,like those rims sizes work better but,,,,no buts!!!!,,,and,,,,

    ..and one must also take the brand,,,the model,, the terrain,,,the tire pressure,,,the velocity,,,the weight of bike ,, the riders skills and aesthetic requirements into consideration.

    FYI,,,once upon a time we used many Sun rims successfully until better alloys came along...they were heavier like the Dirt Stars...but a softer alloy.
    In recent years Buchananns who build these rims in their California facility decided to improve the quality..like aligning the two ends [that are butt welded together] for a change and making them rounder and lighter BWOE...they accomplished this by over-sizing the circumference and then machining the excess off in a lathe,,,voila a lighter,straighter rim BUT not as strong....a little extra beef does matter...thus i have not used or recommended a Sun rim in years for the dual sport scene.

    FYI,,,,weight matters,,,not just the benefits of unsprung weight,,easier handling..thus i'd rather have a heavy n tuff rim over a lighter, soft alloyed one,,,and a light and tuff one over a heavy n tuff one:thumb

    FYI,,,the off-road improvement in handling of the narrower rims is far greater than any diminishment of on road handling characteristics,,,,theoretically the wider rims would be better with lower profile/aspect ratio tires which need them to keep the sidewalls supported..

    FYI,,,the Excel A-60 is clearly my favorite choice for strength/$$$ value.
    unfortunately it is cursed with an obnoxious silver pinstripe etched full circle,,,there are folks that have returned the wheels and switched to other rims because it doesn't meet their aesthetic requirements...hey i'm with you..it takes an additional circa $100 to strip the color/ sand the stripe off /rebuff to a shine and re-anodize black:huh:cry:cry
    ....and to add insult to injury,,,there are no matching rears available for 90% of the rims we need for your dual sport bikes....they only come in the standard du jour 1.85 &2.15x19 rears. excels link=
    http://rkexcelamerica.com/mx_excel_rims.html

    FYI,,truth be told not everyone rides like Pyndon and Neduro so have more options to choose from....which brings me to the point that there are some riders with the trickest suspensions and state of the art wheels/rims etc who simply plow through everything ,,,are cluelless to the art of modulating throttle control,,pulling on the handlebars and lofting the front end over that log or rock.....

    FYI,,,some rims are better in muddy conditions....several years ago DID had rim with arounded profile that shed mud incredibly well,,,unfortunately it had a 6000 series alloy that was too soft for the serious off-roader...the dimpleless Sun and Excel rims collect les dirt and the A-60 has the next best mud slinging profile....mud buildup can seriously affect your handling

    FYI,,,tire pressures......to avoid pinch flats the heavier the bike the more pressure is better circa 38psi+ for the big iron on road and 30psi off road,,,
    i hear reports all the time that 20-26 psi is being used by some very respected sources...perhaps they can chime in what they use on what and where....:thumb
    'nuff for now gotta head to work
    woody
    #34
  15. kennyd

    kennyd kennyd

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    thanks for your insight woody! dirt star now offers LT-X lighter but tuff and ST-X 15% tuffer but a bit heavier. how do these compare with excel A-60? for strenght and weight? they both claim 7000 series aluminum. and which model is the 950 SE KTM dirt star OEM rim? LT-X or ST-X ?
    #35
  16. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    so i got all the gears at Daido moving to find out some concrete answers...regarding availability..rim weight/sizes/ models

    FYI,,,the 1.85 x21 and 2.5 x18 used on the KTM 950SE are specialty items made for the manufacturer

    FYI,,,the sizes for the dirt models are as follows:

    1.6x21 LT-X in silver or black...
    1.6x21 ST-X only in black

    1.85x19 Lt-X in silver or black
    1.85x19 ST-X only in black for 125cc mx/sx/

    2.15x19 LT-X in silver or black for bigger ie over 200cc mx/sx
    2.15x19 ST-X only in black

    no 18'' available....

    they are trying to find a chart that has a reference list for identifying what rim went to what model bike...i can just look at a rim and tell you pretty much what style hub /what indexing etc...that aparticular rim can be used on ..you guys:dunno

    hence the need for the reference chart

    will keep ya posted
    woody
    #36
  17. Thor_with_the_KTM

    Thor_with_the_KTM Adventurer

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    is there someone who can point me to a place in EUROPE where I can buy Excel Takasago A-60 1,6'x21 front rim for my ktm 990 adventure ?
    #37
  18. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Do you want a whole wheel or just the rim?
    #38
  19. Thor_with_the_KTM

    Thor_with_the_KTM Adventurer

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    I'm interested rim only
    #39
  20. 5 speed

    5 speed Been here awhile

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    I bought an Excel 2.15x21 to replace the stocker. Rad wheel built it. They had to order the rim and then black anodize it themselves. I had a billet hub installed because I wanted to keep my other wheel for a knobby. For the road and all the weight I really like the 2.15 and the stock scorps seem to corner good; nice turn in.
    #40