Is a CARNET also required for a trailer - that is towed behind a motorcycle on a RTW Trip ?

Discussion in 'Trip Planning' started by Bali Davo, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Bali Davo

    Bali Davo Adventurer

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    Is a CARNET also required for a trailer - that is towed behind a motorcycle ?


    Hi Guys , not sure where to ask this question ..,


    I am planning a RTW trip on a motorcycle with a difference .....,

    I am hoping / planning to tow a trailer behind a motorcycle on a RTW trip (ie; I plan to carry 4 surfboards in my trailer)


    Question ; is a carnet required for the trailer , as it is for the bike .., or is the trailer included in the bikes carnet ?


    Regarding the trailer .., how do I get permission at the many boarders for the trailer ?


    Shipping wont be a problem as it will be semi dismantled and narrow and will sit beside the bike in the shipping crate


    Note ; the trailer (and the bike) will be Australian Registered, but the trailer will have it's legal Australian road registration (and number plate) different from the motorcycles.

    Kind Regards

    Dave


    PS: Here is what I am planning ...................,

    Both the Bike (Ktm 1290 SAR) and Bike Towed Trailer (Bushtec Spartan - modified) .., will both be registered in Australia.

    ...., the trailer will have its own unique compliance plate , licence plate , and registration that is totally separate from the motorcycle .

    The trailer I intend to buy will be imported from the USA from a company called "Bushtec" and the trailer model will be their 'SPARTAN" Model (LINK : https://store.bushtec.com/Spartan-Utility-Trailer-p/9s1000.htm )

    [​IMG]

    I intend to use this trailer due to its light 80KG weight and because of its superior AIR suspension and larger 16" wheels. (I do have some import hoops to jump through in Australia to get it registered )

    I will also me modifying it ...., by lengthening the tow bar by 33 inches,
    - as Bushtec say I will need to do this to correctly balance my load of 4 to 5 surfboards , (which will range in length from 6'8" through to 8'6"} .

    Bushtech also commented that 60% of my surfboard load must sit forward of the axel , with 40% hanging to the rear of the axel so that their recommended 20 KG is sitting on the towing hitch point.

    I will be making a lockable Aluminium sheeting Coffin BOX to carry the surfboards and the width between the SPARTAN Trailers wheel base is just enough to accommodate the width of my surfboards .
    The Aluminium Lockable Surfboard coffin case (similar to a tradesman's toolbox that you see in the back of a pickup truck) ..., will sit on top of the SPARTAN Trailers Carry BASKET , and incorporate an added rectangular section on the bottom of the Carry case , that will fit snuggly inside the Spartans Carry basket to lock it in place . In this lower compartment within the Base of the Carry Box, is where I will keep my heaviest items to keep the trailers weight as low as possible.

    I may even replace the 16" cast wheel with 21" Spoked off road rims to increase ground clearance and to add strength the combat potholes and to aid better in off road conditions .., I still need to run that possibility by Bushtech though before I commit to that idea.




    The total towed weight (ie; the trailer + aluminium box and surfboards + extra luggage in the lower portion of the box contained within the Lower Basket section of the trailer) .....,
    - Shall be no more than approximately 160 Kg

    I will be towing this weight behind a 2017 - KTM 1290 Super Adventure 'R' .., and will be buying the bike and trailer early next year once I return to Australia.



    After spending about 5-6 months setting up the bike, and streamlining the kit with some trips throughout Australia ,

    ..., I plan to finally take off through the US, Central and South America for a year, before returning to Australia again and then continuing the trip from Darwin Australia and onwards up through Indonesia and the rest of SE Asia, towards India and Central Asia and beyond.

    I realise the Carnet de passage is not required for the Americas leg of the trip , so I likely wont organise that until the SE Asia and onward leg of the journey begins as I will be leaving from Australia once again.

    So at this stage really I just need to know about towing the trailer through ' the Americas' .., and if it will be allowable , and ultimately also want to know if there is anywhere in the world where a trailer towed behind a motorcycle is not allowed ?




    I know the trailer is a burden , but my lifelong love of surfing will see me camping / staying for long stints cheaply at surf spots , and I will have opportunities to unhitch the trailer when the waves drop down to take off for week long mountain exploration rides etc, then return to hitch up the trailer before moving on further down the coast to the next perfect wave.

    The KTM 1290 SAR bike will tow the load just fine ..., and I could not find a more roadworthy trailer than those made by BUSHTEC (while still being lightweight) with good suspension and wheels able to handle off road and a good 360 degree helm joint swivel hitch , should make this trailer the best suited above the others available for fire trail type roads etc .

    I was also thinking when charging through sandy beach side trails , the trailer (with its weight down low and trailing behind the bike , may even help stabilise the big heavy KTM on the sand by acting like a rudder on a boat (as opposed to a top heavy bike) .., but have yet to put that to the test .

    I am open and welcoming to all suggestions, and advice to make this plan work for the best - I also look forward to hearing any input not positive, and especially negative .., as I am a hope for the best / plan for the worst type of guy .

    I will have no itinerary, other than trying to move away from places before it gets to wintery so I will be trying my hardest to work the seasons in my favour, and will be trying to chase an endless summer as much as possible :)
    #1
  2. Mark Manley

    Mark Manley Long timer

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    In most countries that allow a trailer to be towed behind a motorcycle they have the same number plate and it might be an idea to do that when outside of Australia to avoid any confusion, I am sure there is a place on a carnet for a trailer to be listed. Your next problem will be that some countries do not allow trailers to be towed behind motorcycles or have size limits, in the UK for instance they have a maximum width of 1 meter and 2.5 meters from the centre of the rear wheel to the back of the trailer, I have never seen a list of countries that allow them so some research is needed.
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  3. nickguzzi

    nickguzzi Long timer

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    No idea about bikes, but several countries I can think of have dedicated registration and plating of trailers for cars/trucks.
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  4. Mark Manley

    Mark Manley Long timer

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    Sounds like an interesting plan and keep us updated on how you get on, I have seen photos of bikes in the US and Canada towing pretty big trailers so you should be alright there. One thing for sure is you will be fine with a trailer in Cambodia.

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  5. szurszewski

    szurszewski Long timer

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    Hi Bali Davo - you asked in "Is Mexico Safe?" for me to take a look at this, so here I am!

    First off, your planned trip sounds amazing!

    For plates and reg'o (is that how you say it down there? no apostrophe maybe?), trailers are registered separately from the towing vehicle - the only exception to this is that some states allow a small trailer to go with NO registration, plates or title at all. We started our trip in one of those states, but opted to title and register our trailer anyway with the idea that it would cause less hassle/confusion/suspicion in states that do require a trailer to be registered/plated. (Also, on our rig, as on yours I would think, the trailer completely blocks view of the motorcycle's plate from behind.)

    I can't speak to anything but the USA, Canada and Mexico, but I know that we had no trouble in any of those countries; I have tried to find documentation for any of the United States that prohibits towing with a motorcycle and I could not find it. So while I can't say it is for sure legal in all states, I know we have not had a problem in any (and we have been to most in the last year) and I don't think you will either. There is some truth in getting a bit more leeway because you're doing something cool ;)

    It sounds like you have planned this out well and I think it's great that you have already planned to take fine tuning trips at home before starting off elsewhere. For those reasons, no horrible you're going to die lecture - if that's going to happen you'll find out at home anyway! But...some thoughts: I bet you already know how much your materials for your box will weigh - I am guessing you are looking at 50 lbs of sheet metal (not sure what gauge you want to use) plus more weight for welds or hinges or braces or whatever you plan to use to make your lockable box that can also sit alongside your moto in the crate (with also four surfboards?). I think you are maybe at 250 lbs with your trailer, box and boards (<--minimum weight unless you are bringing a truly old school redwood board ;) ) before you start adding in anything else.

    Your bike surely has horsepower to pull it, but I do wonder how your contact patch will hold up to braking - assuming you will run a fairly aggressive tread for your trip, you'll have a very small contact patch on pavement. Another concern is when off road, you're going to have a lot of weight pushing the back of your bike around. Maybe you're right and it will help stabilize it on sand, but that's not what I'd expect. (Having just reread your post, I certainly don't think you'll be "charging" through beach side sandy trails with this setup!)


    This though, I think is likely to be your biggest issue: you are building a giant sail to pull behind your bike. We have a completely different set up than you plan, so there is not a lot of direct comparison, but I can tell you that crosswinds have been an issue and we have a lot more weight (and an extra wheel!) up front. I'm not a surfer, so I don't know how awful this question is, but could you make the trip happily with, say, just two boards? (I mean, just one would be even better...but I assume you "need" at least a long and a short...) While it wouldn't change your weight much, less height would mean a lot less catch for the crosswind. We have litterally had the wind push our trailer so hard it turned the bike a few times, and many times I've had to constantly steer AWAY from the wind to counteract the trailer tounge pusing the back of the bike toward the wind (because the wind is pushing the back of the trailer away)...if that makes sense.

    Anyway, it all sounds very cool and I hope you'll let me know when you have a ride report. When you get to the USA if your path is near us we'd welcome a visit.

    Here's a couple of links I found you might like, but have probably already found:

    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/sherco-behind-a-ktm.503013/

    http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums...cussion-forum/393319-trailer-towing-laws.html


    and this is what we look like (as taken by another inmate who didn't know us on the Golden Gate bridge):
    upload_2017-9-11_8-43-54.png
    #5
  6. clumsy_culhane

    clumsy_culhane Been here awhile

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    Hi mate re the rego, Mexican Customs never had too many issues with mine (I brought my Australian-plated bike to LA then crossed into Mexico at Naco), it just takes them a bit longer to work out because the info is in different parts. I took copies and originals of both the registration docs and also the title transfer when I bought the bike along with the road-worthy cert.

    In reality, I think you could probably get away with only the rego, but at the Guatemalan border they asked me for the title transfer stuff as well (he also asked for both international and local drivers licenses, but I assume you're across that). Have you sorted your shipper yet? I flew my bike with tradelanes with no hassles and then imported it myself on the USA side (no need to pay a broker - its not hard at all!), he's based in Melbourne. If you want a hand with what USA Docs you need let me know!
    #6
  7. Bali Davo

    Bali Davo Adventurer

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    Hi Clumsy ,
    I have been living in Indonesia the last 12 years, and don't yet have a move back date to Australia, but I am aiming for maybe January for a return to Oz.

    Unfortunately I lots of red tape and other things to first take care of here in Indonesia before I can 'shut up shop' so to speak and 'be free' .
    Once 'free' I will buy the KTM - 1290 SAR as soon as I can return to Oz, as it's not feasible to buy a big bike here in Indonesia due to the Government here adding an extra 125 % luxury tax on bikes over 500cc (and 60% on bikes over 250cc but less than 500cc) making then ridiculously overpriced (ie; about AUD $70,000)
    When it gets closer to knowing exactly when I can make the run to Oz I will order my trailer and farkles ASAP so I don't have to wait too long for those to get shipped.

    Due to my 12 years in Indonesia, I am sort of freaking out about the possibility of cold climates (I feel freezing once the mercury falls below 25 degrees Celsius LOL) so I will be getting a heated seat and grips for sure on the bike, plus some heated base layers LOL)

    So therefore that plan in mind, I will be building my trailer , and catching up with and family friends I haven't seen in years, ie; in between getting used to the new bike and trailer.
    As I do that, I will likely do a trip around Australia fine tuning everything, and running the bike in, and working out what gear I wont be needing LOL , as I am sure I will be kooking it and packing way too much .

    I will likely be Air freighting my rig to LA as you did Clumsy Culhane, ie; without a broker ..., I want to fly direct from Sydney with Qantas if possible, as I will be basing myself out towards Wollombi (a few hours North West of Sydney Airport) .., and not far back it was even possible to book direct through Qantas and even read it used to be possible to RORO with the bike straight into the planes cargo hold, but have recently read Qantas are now forcing people to now use shippers / agents which has now dramatically increased the price compared to what you previously paid to Qantas direct.
    - When I get back to Oz I will go and see the blue collar boys at Mascot (Qantas Shipping) and see if I can haggle my way past a shipper and book direct (or like you did Clumsy , and do the paperwork myself)
    ..., after 12 years of full time haggling here in Indonesia and dealing with their red tape and confusion, I am optimistic of finding a way to bypass an agent .

    In the meantime, I can't do much else , so I have had some downtime lately to plan the trip, and learn as much as I can. The other day I even bought levels 1,2 & 3 of the Rosetta Stone Latin America Computer Language courses as it's price was heavily discounted for the U.S Labour Day .., as the only Spanish language I know is a few words from Speedy Gonzales cartoons when I was a kid LOL ..., so lots of learning coming up.
    I want to learn as much Spanish as possible , as just from living here in Indonesia, and learning the language here I knowing how much extra rewarding it is to be able communicate with locals, even if it's at a basic level.



    On this trip , as I mentioned earlier .., I will be trying to avoid cold weather , (I don't care how hot it gets, I just hate cold)

    I will hopefully escape the depths of the Australian winter so that I can Arrive in the North American Summer .
    - I want to visit some Surfer buddies in California who I met and shared some great waves and fun times with over the years from their Indonesia vacations away from the US.

    I also would love to go to North to Alaska and Canada (as I have friends in Canada) but undecided about this, as it might screw with my working in with the seasons plan ..., as I will hit too much cold Weather (for my liking) on the way back through the US, as my plan for the USA is ...., I will eventually drop of the trailer at a Californian friends house, so I can then spent 2 months riding and camping on the Trans America Trail (starting from Oregon)
    - then back track from the U.S East Coast end of the Trans American Trail's finishing point , before heading back towards California again , but this time via the southern states ?

    ..., as I camp along the way, and look for Wile E. Coyote & the road runner LOL .., and go to places like Boot hill , and the OK Corral etc , as I am a big fan of American western folklore, music and Spaghetti Westerns etc .



    Once I get back to California, I want to be getting to Baja Mexico , and wild camping wherever possible , or surf spot camping at paid campgrounds if need be , ie; before the rest of America starts feeling the cold and starts getting the same Idea. I really want to be in Baja Mexico while its still fairly quiet before it hits their tourist high season .

    Then I will want to be in Central America through the (North America) winter months and making sure Stay out of South America - until its at least well into spring ! ..., as I want it to be full Summer when I get down to Chile and Argentina. (which I will still be freezing my nuts off anyway LOL)
    #7
  8. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    I don't know about your registration question, but do have a comment about trailers. One of the advantages of motorcycles, especially in densly populated countries, is the ability to split lanes to get through traffic. Have you considered a one-wheeled trailer so that you can keep width to a minimum? (photo from Google Image search)

    [​IMG]
    #8
  9. Bali Davo

    Bali Davo Adventurer

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    Hi szurszewski,

    Wow thank you kindly szurszewski your detailed reply .., I also answered some of your questions also in the above reply to Clumsy .

    You sure look styling on that Goldwing, it doesnt get anymore luxurious than that setup.
    I actually found out about the bushtec trailers from watching a you tube video from a guy in the US on a goldwing who turned his Goldwing into a showbike with an onboard Led lightshow 'on the bike' thats brighter than a New York Discotech . He done an unboxing video of the Bushtech (sprayed to match his goldwing) and it was from there I decided thats the best suited trailer for me due to the larger wheels and air adjustable suspension.

    Cheers greatly for those cool links too szurszewski ..., That KTM / Trailer link you sent is gold to, as it shows the rough idea I was thinking (in my head) regarding how I was going to mount the tow bar to the bike .
    The new 1290 has similar mounting points available as that 990 , so seeing it already done (in the link you sent) gets rid of any anxiety of jumping that hurdle when the time comes ..,plus it is a;so good to have a photo to show the regulating / compliance authorities In Australia so they can comment on it as to whether it complies or not to their regulations , ie; before I begin cutting and welding metal.

    Regarding the Surfboards .., I have thought hard about limiting the boards but the last 12 years here in Indonesia has seen me so dependant on using 7 boards , so much so that I kept a near identical backup set of boards to those original 7 boards just in case I snapped one .., I'd feel naked if even one was ever missing from the quivver.
    I really love the big surf (bigger the better) and I can take a few boards and just scrape by , but if I can get some of the big wave places when they are on I will be kicking myself forever if I didnt have the right equipment at hand , as this is my last chance to do a RTW surftrip in this magnitude (I am 52 now) , so if I ever got the chance to make a 2nd RTW trip (ie; lucky enough and financial enough) which I doubt .., the emphasis on surfing would be a highly sedated one , even non existent . Maybe after the Americas leg , and I return to Australia , then rest a tad before shipping to Indonesia with all boards in tow .., I can ship the boards and trailer off to a friends home in the UK as I wont really need them until Europe / Morocco / Africa (except perhaps South India / Sri Lanka) but waves are much smaller there so not too fussed . South India is mostly road so might even just thake one board tied to the crash bars for that leg only.
    ..., So ultimatly ..., dropping from 7 to 5 boards or even down to to 4 boards is a big jump for me , as I am so used to having boards in 6 " increments to cover all the wave sizes while being able to perform to the fullest (which is where I get my kicks) , So for me going without one board is like a golfer saying ...., welllll ok then (sigh) i will TEE OFF with my 7 iron - if I must ..., but I really want my big berth driver iron ::waysad .., (if that analogy makes sense? )

    I am hearing you regarding the sail / trailer in the wind thing .., and I know that apparently once down peru / Chile etc it can get really strong , so yes I fully agree .., but I am willing to cope / suffer with that, and generally I am not a fast rider, and dont plan to ride outside of 50 - 60 mph with the trailer (and thats in the best conditions).

    Honestly - If I wasn't as keen a surfer as I am I would ditch the trailer entirely, and I can understand how non-Surfers must think we are all nuts, and we are , that all the saltwater has effected our brains and logical ways thinking. Bikes do that too , but not so severely
    After living so long in Indonesia lugging around 2 or more surfboards on side racks in a motorcycle with panniers and top box , I am so used to unbalanced weights on a bike. I am so used to crap roads and trails and treating my bike like a farm tractor also, while nursing it in places it shouldn't be . This new KTM (once I buy it) will be a million times more capable than any other bike I've owned to date so far ..., and traffic in Mex. Central and South America is much , way less nutzo than it is here in Indonesia to what I am used to.
    There wont be too many long iron butt rides with the trailer either , mostly on boarder hop days will be my longer rides, and I want to go slow anyway and enjoy the scenery - Generally speaking - I wont be in any hurry to make it anywhere.

    My plan will be .., Once I get to some surfspots and decide to stay for a week or more, I can get set up at places where I can unhitch the trailer and store it inside of a cheap cabin, or locked up in a yard or storeroom of a camp caretakers home , etc (ie; pay them a few bucks to safeguard it) ..., then just select my daily board (depending on wave conditions) and tie it to the crash bars and pannier rack with rope should I decide to surf at another nearby beach for the day without shifting camp . I will also take off for a few days here and there to explore mountainous areas or some more challenging off road stuff , visit POI's etc minus the trailer .

    When I am getting closer to taking off I will let it be known , and will surely be asking more questions in the meaning . I dont plan of drone, or vlogs or go pros on the trip , just a few iphone shots maybe (I will need to buy) as Ive never owned a camera ever .., but I will take a few shots and load them up when I an free wheelin' .., for now I just have to let my current situation finish it's course and then get me back to Oz and get the plans in motion.

    cheers :0-0
    #9
  10. Bali Davo

    Bali Davo Adventurer

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    That trailers a gem , I well you what .., If I didnt have to carry a heap of surfboards ..., your trailer would be the bees knees , I think my weight wouuld be too top heavy for that design as the boards would be hanging over that rear wheel .
    Anyway .., where did you get it ? or did you make it ..., as thats the best example if a monowheel edtrailer Ive seen so far . I would love to see more detailed shots of that gem :)
    #10
  11. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    I found that photo using Google. It's not mine. Search Google image for "trailer behind motorcycle" and you'll get a bunch of photos. Some were surf boards, too.

    A Google image search for "motorcycle trailer" only gets photos of motorcycles on trailers.
    #11