Is ATGATT overrated?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by blk-betty, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. perterra

    perterra -. --- .--. .

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    There comes a point that it's just not worth getting on the bike with that mindset. Before I put on kevlar pants, boots, jacket, gloves just to drive a mile and a half to the hardware store to pick up one bolt, then come back home and take all that shit off, I'll drive the truck.
    #41
  2. gfloyd2002

    gfloyd2002 Title Free Since '12

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    No. Seems pretty one sided in favor of wearing gear to me. There are numerous studies that support the fact that wearing gear significantly reduces risk of serious injury. Here is but one of many results (this one from the George Institute Study): Motorcyclists were significantly less likely to be admitted to hospital if they crashed wearing motorcycle jackets (RR=0.79), pants (RR=0.49), or gloves (RR=0.41). When garments included fitted body armour there was a significantly reduced risk of injury to the upper body (RR=0.77), hands and wrists (RR=0.55), legs (RR = 0.60), feet and ankles (RR=0.54). Non-motorcycle boots were also associated with a reduced risk of injury compared to shoes or joggers (RR=0.46). (RR is the relative risk ratio, showing the percentage of risk of one group over another, so a RR of less than one means something is less likely to occur by a certain percentage). Another study also looked at the role of protective gear in reducing serious injury. The MAIDS study found that: In 74% of the cases the upper injuries were reduced or prevented by upper torso clothing. For lower extremity injuries, gear reduced or prevented 66.3% of injuries.

    Nope. Every commute every day, I wear helmet, jacket, pants (or one piece), boots, gloves, ear protection. Takes me less than 60 seconds to don my gear head to toe. Not much to ask, and saying gear takes too long to put on is a copout.

    I'm calling b.s. I live in Barbados, so I know about heat and humidity. It really isn't a problem with the right gear. I can get to work and back without being sweaty in full gear. I just wear breathable gear. REV'IT Turbine stuff works great, as does my Teiz Mojave one piece. My gloves are Held Airstreams, and breath really nicely for year-round summer temps. Lots of other good, protective options for hot weather. Overall, no more uncomfortable that going without protection. In fact, keeping direct sun off of me while allowing wind to blow through is perfect -- I'm more comfortable with my gear on than without.

    I wear the gear around at my stops, unless it is work or I'm going to be off the bike for a long time. Not at all hard, except that the helmet is a PITA. Got a backpack to stuff gloves and jacket in that has a helmet sling, and that helps. When I get off my bike, I'm usually walking to the store at the same time or a few seconds after people getting out of cars that arrived at the same time. Really not that big of a deal. Takes me about 60 seconds to get everything off when I get to work if I fully take all the gear off, so a bit more of a delay. But 1 minute really not a practical issue.

    Now we get to the heart of the matter. Increase the risks of riding to get your adrenaline pumping? You must really enjoy Russian roulette. Or unprotected sex with unknown partners. Lots of risk and adrenaline there. Lots of fun to be had riding with gear, and certainly more enjoyment if you happen to crash. With the right gear you don't feel isolated from the road at all, it works with you.

    You have been lucky. I'm happy about that. But your logic doesn't work - because I've fallen in minor accidents before and been okay, no need to wear gear. There is no guarantee, and in fact I would say odds are significantly against it, as is easily demonstrable from the literature.

    I see your point, but disagree. Forums are about the exchange of information, maybe even helping people. And in a motorcycle forum, helping people avoid injury is a pretty noble goal. That someone else thinks differently doesn't mean we shouldn't post.

    Reductio ad absurdum argument here - it is false logic. Because in the very worst accidents even the best gear can't hurt you, therefore no reason to wear gear at all? No. There are many accidents that CE and CE2 rated padding can prevent significant injury, including to your spine. Specifically, CE2 rated back protection can absorb significant amounts of force. By wearing back protection, you can signifcantly reduce the chance of the very injuries you fear. It doesn't eliminate it, but there are accidents where it would be the difference between life and death. The studies directly refute your argument.

    /me raises hand.
    #42
  3. daveinva

    daveinva Been here awhile

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    Like by wearing gear? :wave

    I don't know why they call it "common" sense...
    #43
  4. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Seems obvious to me,
    The more gear you wear, the better your odds of avoiding or reducing injury, but no amount of gear will make riding "safe". How can anyone argue that????

    I'm a MTGATT rider.
    Being a full time year round rider in the PNW, staying warm and dry is a priority, and gear that works on and off the bike is important.

    I always wear a modular helmet, gloves, steel toe work boots, and jacket. Only 1 of my jackets has armor but I rarely wear that one, I wear jeans or work pants, my only riding pants are rain pants.

    In the past 25 years I have been hit twice by cars, and down twice, the amount of gear I wear allowed me to walk away each time with a few very minor bruises and scratches.

    I believe in gear, but I just don't feel the need for %100 track level gear for how I ride.
    #44
  5. RidingDonkeys

    RidingDonkeys Purveyor of Awesome

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    Thanks for the tip. I'm checking those out.

    Sent from my DROID 2 using Typotalk
    #45
  6. RidingDonkeys

    RidingDonkeys Purveyor of Awesome

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    Like by not getting on the back of a dipshits crotch rocket and letting him act a fool. If I recall the story correctly, she got lifted off the bike because he was going so fast.

    Sent from my DROID 2 using Typotalk
    #46
  7. Wuwei

    Wuwei Long timer

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    In answer to the original question, no. In other words, ATGATT isn't "overrated" in that it has been proven to work time and time again. I don't think anyone seriously disputes that you are better off in almost any crash wearing more and better gear. But, the question that a lot of people in this thread are answering is a different one, and that is if they feel the need to wear ATG "all the time." For me it's MOTGMOTT (most of the gear most of the time). I judge the relative risk of what type of ride I am going on and I dress for what I perceive to be that risk, and I have various types of gear that allow me to be comfortable in most weather so I have the option of protection if I feel I need it. But, sometimes I will pop down to the store wearing just jeans and shoes, but I will always have on a full-coverage helmet and gloves, and usually a motorcycle jacket. I do believe that the risk level is not always the same, and that how you drive is really the most important protection.
    #47
  8. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    I can't honestly say I'm ATGATT. I have, very rarely, ridden without my armored overpants on. Usually in the summer when it's hot and I can't be bothered to put them on. I can literally count the number of times I've done this on two hands.

    I've never not worn any other piece of gear. Always full face helmet. Always armored gloves, always armored boots (I like alpinestars boots a lot -- currently have a pair of SMX boots) and always armored jacket. It doesn't get humid here like it does in some places so it's a lot more bearable even in the summer -- really hot days might have me soaking my shirt with cold water before putting the jacket on -- which has a removable liner and lots of zip open vents.

    I don't agree that ATGATT is for nancies and wusses. It's for people who know how much the asphalt hurts and would like to do everything they can to MITIGATE the risks. We all know motorcycling is somewhat risky. Different people are willing to accept different levels of risk. As long as somebody is educated about the risks and takes whatever steps THEY are comfortable with, I don't give a rat's ass what you wear (or don't).

    What drives me bonkers are the morons who don't realize the risks they are assuming by not wearing gear. Not everyone who doesn't wear gear is doing this -- some know full well what the results can be. But far too many people don't -- they just think "well I won't crash. Haven't yet." Yeah, well, nobody plans on crashing. And you can certainly control yourself, but you can't control the other people on the road.
    #48
  9. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    While I don't disagree with the general direction of the findings, I find the design of the MAIDS report problematic. 2000 variables for 921 cases is in particular the beginnings of craptastic research design. The bulk of the sample was scooters, too, which probably biases the results.

    Also: "Due to the absence of comparable exposure data, it was not possible to determine if any month, day of the week or time of the day was a risk factor."

    This makes me wonder if they used any other forms of exposure (think: miles per year ridden), which tends to be necessary in hazard/survival modeling, as obviously someone who rides 5x more than someone else has more risk of accident (more opportunities).

    This is unfortunate, because better methods exist in social demography, and accidents are exactly the sort of outcome that social demographers look at. I am not a social demographer, but even I can see these issues. One of the pitfalls of skipping the peer review process, though.

    I hope these guys at least crack a methods textbook once: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/research/tfhrc/projects/safety/motorcycles/MCCS/overview.cfm
    #49
  10. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    You're wrong.

    First of all, you don't even list a set of armored pants and therefore, you're lacking All the gear. Second of all, yes I do wear all of it, all of the time. Even if I am at work and just going out for a Mickey Dee's run, I'll borrow a car or gear up. My Aerostich pants are VERY easy to pull on and off and so are my BMW All-Around boots.

    I've been in an accident on a 95 degree day that would have left me a paraplegic were it not for my arnored jacket. So ATGATT really does mean something to me.

    As for my view of others, I already think most people are idiots. There is ample evidence to support this without looking at what others wear when riding. Just because I think they are idiots doesn't mean I wont hang out with them though nor would I ever insult their choices. In America, we are free to be idiots and I support your right to be one.
    #50
  11. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    Hmmm... I also have a concealed carry permit and carry a pistol all the time (when and where legal). I am of the opinion that I can't really predict risks well enough to risk my life. I have no intention of ever being in a place where I think I might need my gun. I also don't plan on riding in such a way that I'm likely to need my armored gear or helmet. My decision to have both all the time is insurance against being wrong in my risk assessment.
    #51
  12. daveinva

    daveinva Been here awhile

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    Yes, that was her first mistake.

    Good thing smart and talented riders never crash though, no need for gear then.

    :norton
    #52
  13. Aussijussi

    Aussijussi Long timer

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    I wear it all the time, even for short stint's. When it's cold, like now, goretex with armour, sidi crossfire boots, i wish they didnt make such a racket when i walk, leather jacket and trousers, when it gets warmer. I really like leather, doesnt flap in the wind, make's a difference on a bike like the 990, where you sit upright. It's up to the individual, what you wear. As someone mentioned before, protective gear nowadays is within everyone's means, but i still see people riding, wearing jeans and t-shirt and sneaker's, often riding a brand new bike, no money left to buy gear, i s'pose. If you want to be an idiot, the choice is yours.
    And dont give a fuck how i look either!
    #53
  14. RideAbout

    RideAbout Mentally Retired

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    IMHO, that is the most important statement about safety anyone can make... the gear is always secondary.
    #54
  15. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    IMHO yes it is. Riding skills and accident avoidance are far more important to me. That being said I rarely ride w/o gear. However my emphasis is on remaining upright and unscathed.
    #55
  16. Xtremjeepn

    Xtremjeepn Motorhead!

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    Typically the more knowledgeable you are about riding skills, the more inclined you are to wear full gear!:deal


    It's the people that "think" they know how to ride that also "think" bad stuff won't happen to them:deal

    Nobody ever killed in a motorcycle accident has been killed in one before!:wink:
    #56
  17. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    What I got from BB's statement was...he is more of a manly man for NOT wearing ATGATT. You know, chicks dig scars and all that.

    Me, I'm not ATGATT. The only thing lacking for me to be ATGATT is a good pair of riding pants and moto specific boots. I do wear shin/knee guards occasionally and the boots I have aren't too bad.
    I had a pair of armored pants but the zippers screwed up within two weeks, took them back and never got around to replacing them.
    I really should get another pair just to cover my ass( chaps pun intended ):lol3
    #57
  18. Avi8tor

    Avi8tor ADV Poser

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    Ha...at least you didn't put this in Jo mamma. Life is all about choices. Go with what feels right for you. For me, I wear all the gear. I don't have time to be off of work and out of commission.

    The gear is mostly why only about half of the cruiser guys wave as they go by.
    #58
  19. Aussijussi

    Aussijussi Long timer

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    I think the gear you wear, is a part of the package of safety, you cant separate them. Friend of mine died of head injuries he recieved after collission with a car making a left in front of him, he was wearing a helmet, didnt fasten the strap though. He used to say, 'cant be bothered to do the fucking strap every time'. Lot of times when it's stinking hot, for example, i think this is pia, or really cold and your visor is fogging up, but after few miles of twisties, things look lot better!
    #59
  20. Masterlink

    Masterlink n00b

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    ATGATT?? Not for the first few years of riding....but at this point,after two low-sides and THANKFULLY Before a high-side, it is not overrated! And you are totally wrong about spinal cord injury and blunt force trauma--ATG absolutely protects against these injuries as well as traumatic brain injury.(not every time,but often enough to wear the gear)
    This time last year I was in a trauma unit; the gear saved my life:no question about it.

    THANKS!
    #60