Is ATGATT overrated?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by blk-betty, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. t6pilot

    t6pilot Been here awhile

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    Once knew a very pretty gal that liked to ride in shorts, tank top tennis shoes and no helmet(along time ago no laws then) she took a slider, not so pretty after that
    #81
  2. ShardPhoenix

    ShardPhoenix Наглый ублюдок

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    Hmm..

    I wear all the gear I have all the time. Modular FF helmet, gloves, pants, boots, jacket. Doesn't matter if I intend to ride 50 miles or half a mile. I'll gear up even if I'm just going to the grocery store that's half a block away, but don't feel like walking because I have quite a few things on the list. I'd feel like a real idiot if I made the assumption of "oh, I'm only going half a block, what could happen?" and I wound up getting banged into in the store parking lot.

    Even when the temps climb up to 100 degrees I'll be wearing the same ensemble. I figure if I can tolerate wearing full "battle rattle" in hot/humid or hot/dry conditions, I'll survive wearing gear while riding the bike. Ticket is to stay properly hydrated. Further, I'd rather be a little on the "warm" side than feel the stinging of rocks, bugs, or whatever kind of debris bouncing off of bare skin. I'm also not a fan of wind burn or sunburn. I'll keep myself covered up, thanks.

    So, I don't think being geared up is over rated at all.
    #82
  3. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    I don't know about over-rated, under-rated, or just right. I think that if safety is high on your list of priorities, but you still want to ride, gear is right up there with proper training, maintaining situational awareness, good bike setup/maintenance, regular practice drills, skill implementation, and visibility.

    I don't wear ATGATT. Most people in this thread who have claimed to wear ATGATT, IMO, do not. There are a few other items I would like to add to my own gear, of which I wear MOTGIHATT (most of the gear I have, all the time).

    I'm wanting to add an upgrade of full hardshell thorax (upper body) protector, a LEATT/airbag (for neck stability) or similar, some compression shorts with CE hip/coccyx/thigh armor, and some full-height moto-specific boots to my current gear (3/4-length HiViz Tourmaster Sonora, Tourmaster Flex pants, various hard-knuckle moto gloves, safety-toed over-ankle footwear, and various DOT FF $100 helmets). I'd also like to get a hydration pack with multiple additional bladders, and one of those pre-soak cooling vests to wear under the mesh jacket on really hot days. A lot of my gear is also for comfort. 'Less sunburn/windburn/deafness/swamp-foot/crotch-rot/exposure/etc. when you wear the right gear. It's also more comfortable not being injured from an off. I fall offroad all the time. Without gear, I'd probably spend a LOT of time being injured.

    My bikes are also improved with better tires, better mirrors, better lighting, and a bunch of red/white DOT reflective tape on the sides/rear of my topbox. My lighting is continually improving as I get the funds. I'd like to add braided-stainless brake hoses too.

    I wouldn't sweat somebody else's choice in gear or no gear. I barely sweat my own, even though I choose to wear MOTGATT. None of us is going to live forever anyway. Carry decent medical, disability, and life insurance. Then nobody's ass-out if you go splat.
    #83
  4. OldPete

    OldPete Be aware

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    A full face helmet has saved my face/chin twice in 40 years of riding on the street.
    Too many times to count dirt riding. Before full face helmets,
    we would install football face guards and wrap the opening between the two bars w/ductape.

    I really don't care what people wear or don't wear while riding as long as they pick-up the tab for a get off.
    And that includes loooong term health care... like drain bamage. :deal :lol3
    #84
  5. wmax351

    wmax351 Been here awhile

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    I think the question is really about cognizance of the risks associated, for both sides.

    ATGATT is really helpful in reducing injuries and risk of death during a crash of any level. It reduces, but doesn't eliminate. There are obviously situations where ATGATT just makes cleanup easier (I'm thinking head-on with 18 wheeler, etc).

    If someone doesn't wear gear thinking they just won't crash or it won't be serious (just some rash, etc) it is very wrong-headed. Squids are here, as well as some pirates.

    If you don't wear gear because you don't want to, but you know damn well that if you crash, you will likely suffer severe injury, that was avoidable, it is fine. People make their own choices, and so long as they are informed, I will respect that. My dad will not wear a full face helmet (my mom and I bought him a nice 3/4 with a face shield) or armored pants. I got him a nice, armored jacket to keep him from wearing a plain leather jacket (non-motorcycle specific: thin-ish leather). Its his choice, and it is very informed: he worked in the ER in south San Francisco for 15 or so years. He's seen what happens. Amputations from impact, the works. He is also very conservative in his riding.

    I wear gear whenever I am riding for the purpose of riding, or fast, or long distances, or in riskier situations (traffic, at night, etc). I have a zippered together set of armored jacket and overpants, all made from thick leather. I've worn it in everything from 37 degrees to 115 degrees. If I am just riding around town, I will take my risks without the pants, but usually wear the jacket. I figure: bicycle speeds, bicycle injuries (and I've had some pretty fast crashes on bikes. They aren't fun). I still almost always wear a full face helmet. I feel very uncomfortable without a helmet (and I have ridden without one before).

    I carry a half helmet on my bike (its all that fits in the side-cases and on my big head). If I need to pick up my girlfriend somewhere in Berkeley, I give her the gear, and my helmet. I'll wear the half helmet. She's pretty, and I'd like to keep her that way. :D


    My uncle won't even wear a beanie helmet, unless it is mandatory. I suppose that's his choice, and he doesn't ride aggressively or in traffic (Cruisers: A Guzzi California and a Road King), so that's less of a risk.
    #85
  6. blk-betty

    blk-betty bam-a-lam

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    Another question.....do any of you guys who are not 100% ATGATT find you ride differently when your not fully geared up.

    Personally, if going to the store 2 miles away and in only shorts, T-shirt, and tennis shoes I ride slower and take less risks than when I have on a full-face, gloves, jacket, and boots.

    Skill set aside, those riding cruisers typically ride less aggressivley than those on non-cruisers. I think the white coat study and embodied cogniton referenced in the other thread exposes some hidden truths in human behavior. Putting on full gear heightens the dangers of riding for some and makes us more aware so less risk taking, yet for others it makes us feel less vulnerable resulting in more risk taking.
    #86
  7. Celtic Curmudgeon

    Celtic Curmudgeon Indiana Jones wanabe

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    The direction of this thread brings up the point of what is ATGATT? All the gear you could conceivably wear, or all the gear you currently own? BIg difference. Are you ATGATT if you don't wear a neck brace? Molded dental guard? (Hey, you could chip a tooth or bite off your tongue!) What about protecting the junk? Ruptured or contused testes, scrotum tears, and pelvic fractures are documented in accident reports, usually from over-the-handbar type getoffs on sportbikes. So are you not really ATGATT if you're not wearing a cup? Where does it stop? Yes, I'm being a little facitious here, but we risk getting to point that ATGATT is a meaningless plattitude.

    Motorcycle accident injuries would be reduced exponentially if every rider would just wear at least a 3/4 helmet, gloves, long pants and over-the-ankle boots. There's a long, long way to go just getting a majority to agree to that much, good luck making everyone ride around like Spaceman Spiff.
    #87
  8. wmax351

    wmax351 Been here awhile

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    Aggressiveness is a big issue. The way I look at it is

    What is fun on a sport bike?: Seeing how fast you can go, or how quick you can take turns.

    What is fun on a cruiser?: Making noise. Looking cool. Riding in straight lines, comfortably, with noise and vibration.

    What is fun on a touring bike (and I include "cruisers" here when they are used for touring)?: Seeing and going places. Often on empty roads with few cars.

    Which of these are dangerous? Anything where you push limits, sometimes you will go past them.
    #88
  9. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    This intrigues me as the OP mentioned it as well.

    Do you really think we are lying? And what would make you think that?
    #89
  10. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    This is a GREAT point. Is a short sleeve, kevlar T-shirt ATGATT? (do they even make one?)

    I have two kits.

    COMMUTER = Joe Rocket pants with CE knee pads and thin hip pads
    Kilimanjaro jacket
    FF street helmet
    Waterproof touring boots
    Thin, non-gauntlet gloves (or thick winter ones)

    OFF ROAD = Same pants
    Mesh jacket
    FX-37 DS helmet
    AXO pressure suit
    Gaerne MX boots
    Same gloves

    My touring boots have FAR less protection than my MX boots, but are so much easier to walk in. In fact, they have less ankle protection than some hiking boots I have owned. Are they ATGATT?
    #90
  11. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

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    Good points. Perhaps exactly what is meant by ATGATT needs to be specified.

    FWIW I wear
    FF helmet - I only have 1,
    MC gloves,
    jacket - mesh or leather,
    kevlar lined jeans at least or mesh / leather pants, I also have a pair of assless chaps - useful over the kevlar jeans while on the Hardley - those loud pipes get hot ! :D
    MC boots.

    Years ago, back when I started riding, all I had was an OF helmet, a hand-me-down leather jacket (sans armor), regular jeans, work boots. Gawd knows how I survived :eek1 Maybe it was because I knew I wasn't invincible. What I wear now is as much a reflection of my disposable income as anything else.The choices available in gear have improved considerably over the years.

    All that can be done is provide the information then let the rider decide.
    #91
  12. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I even suit up to go hug my bike.

    [​IMG]

    :evil
    #92
  13. sstewart

    sstewart Long timer

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    I try to wear my gear all the time,neck brace too. It's your choice to gear-up,or not. If you grind some parts off for lack of gear,we will help you find them. Gotta be tough if you're gonna be stupid.:freaky
    #93
  14. lemieuxmc

    lemieuxmc Banned

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    Riding isn't dangerous.... crashing, that's dangerous!
    #94
  15. blk-betty

    blk-betty bam-a-lam

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    I have no reason to think you or anyone else is lying but I ask the question because of situations like this scenario......It's summer time, I'm lounging around in shorts, T-shirt and flip-flops (which is my standard off-work uniform) with some friends getting ready to grill some meat and just found out I need one ot two items from the store which is literally two miles down the road and the first 3/4 mile is a residential neighborhood - speed limit 20.

    I can:

    a) hop on the HD as dressed and get back just as quickly as the car but riding the bike is more fun

    b) kick off the flip flops, throw on some shoes, grab the helmet and take the DR

    c) kick off the flip-flops, drop the shorts, put on jeans, jacket, gloves, full-face and take either bike

    d) take the car


    What I do and in what order.....a, d, b then c.

    To me, for just running a quick errand, it's not worth the effort to change clothes and put on protective gear for a very short ride even though I KNOW the risks are pretty much the same as a long ride.

    I have an option of taking a car many don't have that option. So in my scenario, your at your house with all your gear wherever you store it, kicking back with friends in shorts, t-shirt and flops...do you still don full gear for a quick store run or maybe just long pants, shoes and a helmet or do you take the car knowing its not safe to ride without all the gear?
    #95
  16. BTL

    BTL No more snow!!

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    Personally it has worked for me...I survived a head on collision at 80Kph on a Honda 1000 Intercepter in 1984. I went completely over the top on vehicle and slammed shoulder head first onto pavement and then slid face first 80 feet and eventually flipping onto my back into a ditch just stopping short of a culvert.

    I was wearing a Simpson helmet and Hondaline no armour leathers with Leather Moto cross boots. My visor was melting as I slid with the gap created filling with road grime till I came to a stop. I had a large junk of my helmet disappear in the upper left quadrant were I first hit the pavement. My leathers looked like I went through a cheese grater but remained in tact.

    I was transported 20 min lights and sirens to local hospital were I was check over and was told by doctor to buy Lotto Ticket as I walked out of Hospital under own power without so much as a scratch.

    Few days later the bruises did arrive and I looked like the loser of a baseball bat fight....but no worse the wear. I was on new bike next season and enrolled in a Kawasaki race school on my new bike.

    I have since lived with the credo that I can always cool off at my leisure but it sucks trying to grow new skin all summer.

    :deal
    #96
  17. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I'd take the car. I don't ride after drinking, and I'd imagine at that point I would have at least a beer in me.
    #97
  18. TrashCan

    TrashCan Scary Jerry

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    I only drive when I am to drunk to ride.
    :1drink
    :freaky
    #98
  19. blk-betty

    blk-betty bam-a-lam

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    Smart man and not arguing with that logic but it begs the question........, if you don't feel comfortable riding the bike because you've had "at least a beer" should you be driving the car?

    This just goes to the bigger picture that started this thread....risk vs. reward and how much risk are we individually willing to to accept.



    Personally I have no problem with one beer and driving and I will drink one beer and ride the bike as long as I'm also eating but no more than one. Not because I think it significantly impairs my skills but because it lowers my inhibitions and I know I will ride faster and take more chances.
    #99
  20. car94

    car94 What's this Box for?

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