is it my clutch or something else?

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by bobinaustin, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    when bleeding is not self evident:
    The bleed hose terminates in a BMW "speed fill" assembly which is zip tied to the RS of the frame. This barrel contains ball bearing and a spring. The bearing will be somewhat seized in the opening if sys hasn't been bled in a while. poke it with a drift

    opt A: remove the speed fill adapter and replace with a conventional 10mm x 1 bleed nipple from the auto parts. You will knead a pencil flame torch to melt the thread lock on the speed adapter

    opt b: retain speed fill adapter. fit the 10x1 adapter in the speed fill adapter. Cause it to depress the ball bearing but do not drive it so that the ball obstructs the other (inner opening) of the speed fill adapter. i.e. tun it just a little so that the ball is half way though it's travel.

    either method will allow fluid to flow out of the bleed hose. Blow, suck or let it drain by gravity. It doesn't really matter. Watch the paint.
    #21
  2. eric2

    eric2 ®egister this:

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    The question that nobody has asked yet is when was the last time you had the fluid in your hydraulic clutch flushed?

    If the answer is never, then you are about to learn a very expensive lesson, you may have just a problem with the slave cylinder, or the resulting corrosion has caused multiple issues, which may or may not include:

    contaminated clutch disc
    ruined slave cylinder
    ruined master cylinder
    rear main seal

    A mity vac would be a good thing to invest in, it will make flushing the clutch circuit a five minute job.

    It would be wise to consider flushing your brakes too if they haven't been done.

    Brake fluid is hyrdoscopic, so it will attract water which will settle in the lower regions and eat away metal components. Thats why bmw switched from brake fluid to hydraulic fluid after the 1150 series.
    #22
  3. gsweave

    gsweave Yinz, blinkers are on, JACKWAD!

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    Bob like vintage has pointed out just the slave, easy peasy $150. for the new slave. #6 buy the seal #14 as well.

    [​IMG]

    Drop the rear shock, climb underneath in the wheel well, cut down a stubby allen wrench, thinking 6mm.

    I bleed mine twice a year and still have had to replace two of the shiting bastards...In 100k

    Mity-vac makes it an easy chore. like vintage says bleeder right side under the 1.5 inch foam rubber thingy right below seat and zipped to frame.


    consider adding a new speigler clutch line while you are under there. you will find corrosion on the banjo from handlebar line.
    #23
  4. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    2013 prediction: A book "How I chased the agents of doom back in to the Dark Rift and saved the planet with only a slingshot and a BMW GS" becomes a billion dollar best seller and the basis for a new movie Long way Back.
    #24
  5. bobinaustin

    bobinaustin planning for the adv

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    so im planning on bleeding he clutch but im getting conflicting information on time it might take to do and i cant seem to find the bleeder valve on my bike?

    the shop manual shows it here
    [​IMG]

    and on the wisdom article there is a pic of it here, which seems to be on the other side of the bike. neither place seems to have the valve on my bike as far as i can see.
    [​IMG]

    obviously im missing where the valve is. anyone with an 1150gs that has done this in recent memory please help!
    #25
  6. Multiplicity

    Multiplicity Been here awhile

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    I was repling directly to his question, not the entire process. Don't act like a little retarded school girl. Thanks.
    #26
  7. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Dark fluid as reported = failed slave cylinder (piston is spinning due to failed release bearing) no amount of flushing is going to fix. Too late.
    When the slave is pulled there will be a dark sludge in the cavity and the slave end. It looks like grease but it is water soluble (product of brake fluid leakage) be sure to clean out completely.

    BB has good price on slave cylinders that are the exact OEM Magura replacement.

    Before installing be sure to check the new slave release bearing for adequate grease.
    I find almost every new one from BMW has just a tiny dab of grease often not even touching the balls (automated greasing?)
    Add high temp wheel bearing grease with a Q tip and work around ensuring that all the balls are well greased.
    That wee bearing is spinning all the time! :eek1

    While in there be sure to cut back the neoprene sleeve that partially covers the pressure line coming down from the clutch lever.
    It typically holds water in it and will eventually rust out the elbow above the banjo. Cut back about 1"

    As far as bleeding the system goes I push the brake fluid up from the bottom the way BMW does it at the factory.
    A modified brake bleed screw (pushes the ball) and a syringe does the job. Some find bleeding a dry clutch system frustrating, this method takes 2 minutes. :wink: Cover the open clutch reservoir with a rag as fluid will shoot up when it arrives!
    Do not over fill, as the clutch wears the reservoir level rises (opposite of the brake system)

    Note: I believe that greasing the release bearing is as important as regularly flushing brake fluid.
    My original slave cylinder is at 254,000km. I change my fluid every year and have re-lubed the bearing 3 times.


    Notice the dry balls in upper picture, this is typical of what I have seen.
    [​IMG]



    Detail on how to trim the neoprene sleeve. This is a near new cable and the rust is just starting. Most times rust has progressed much further by the time I see them
    [​IMG]



    Reverse bleed, also works great when installing SS Brake lines
    [​IMG]



    Closeup of modified bleed screw (available at any parts jobber) Grind down the end so the threads will engage, turn in and the tip will push the ball back so the fluid can go by.
    [​IMG]
    #27
  8. Zoef zoef

    Zoef zoef Been here awhile

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    This picture is from the right hand side of the bike, and is just above the passenger footrest (manual refers to the same location, you're looking through the bike). If you cut the tywrap you see above in the foto, the hose and endfitting will drop down/can be lowered. The end fitting is enclosed in the foam you see. The end cap can be removed then (be carefull, loctite is probably present). Then a bleed screw has to be inserted for the flushing.
    #28
  9. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    OE BMW Manual makes no mention of replacing the lower shock bolt, neither does the Max parts fiche.
    I see no purpose unless it was damaged removing it.

    If it has the Brown seal there is no need to change if the failure is recent. I have never had an issue with not changing it. Unless you have the proper seal driver (easily made but required) inexperienced hands can do more damage than good.
    #29
  10. jdub

    jdub Dawg bytes reel gud

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    Very, very good advice about the bearing grease. After having two of these bearings fail on two different BMWs, I've learned to keep the bearing well greased and haven't had another problem.
    #30
  11. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    Cut that zip tie. it's holding the bleeder hose on.

    My friend, I don't want to jinx you, but IMO you're wasting your time. Bleeding the clutch is just prolonging the inevitable. You may get a little better clutch feel for a few miles, but you'll quickly be back in the same boat. Worse, the whole time you ride there is fluid migrating up the push rod to your clutch disk. You're about to turn a two-hour, hundred dollar project into a long-weekend, multi-hundred dollar project.
    #31
  12. bobinaustin

    bobinaustin planning for the adv

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    ok so, im at the point where i have the bolts off now but for the life of me i cant figure out how i am supposed to get the slave out!! there is no way there is enough room to go over the bar and unless i get the hoses off first, i cant imagine it coming out under the bar. i swear i am not stupid guys. i just have never done this particular wrenching before and i dont want to remove anything i am not supposed to!

    suggestions?

    <a href="http://imgur.com/rqX315x"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/rqX315xl.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="" /></a>
    <a href="http://imgur.com/78hRdGW"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/78hRdGWl.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="" /></a>
    #32
  13. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    I took the hoses off the the slave cylinder while it was still mounted to the bike.
    #33
  14. bobinaustin

    bobinaustin planning for the adv

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    how did you do that? there is no way i can see to even reach them.
    #34
  15. Steptoe

    Steptoe steptoe

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    It is possible - i've done it on average twice a month over the last few years :D

    It comes out under the bar and inbetween the swingarm. The secret is getting yourself some slack in the clutch fluid cable.

    To give yourself some slack in the clutch hose cut the cable ties holding it at the front of the bike and on the main frame, you can also undo the single nut on top of the L/H fork leg, push the fork tube down and pull the clutch hose "this" side of the fork leg to give you plenty of slack.
    Then pull the slave cylinder away from the back of the gearbox and twist it and angle it down and turn it through the gap between the swingarm and bar - Don't forget to cut the cable tie holding the clutch bleed unit to the rear subframe -
    The slave cylinder will come right out allowing you to undo the banjo bolts.
    #35
  16. bobinaustin

    bobinaustin planning for the adv

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    :thumb
    will try this tonight! thanks!!


    #36
  17. gsweave

    gsweave Yinz, blinkers are on, JACKWAD!

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    steptoe has ya in line.


    No one said there was a ton of work room under there.

    You will get it done:clap
    #37
  18. bobinaustin

    bobinaustin planning for the adv

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    Ok so... It's off. I made a mess but its off. I have a plan for putting the new one on but I am confused by the paper gasket. I have no idea what it should look like in good nick or fouled...

    Here's what I pulled off:
    [​IMG]
    #38
  19. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    A long time ago in a land far away, I read that the new green gasket should have a channel cut at the bottom to provide a path for errant DOT4 to drip to the pavement thereby preventing your clutch from straying to the dark side.
    :dog

    Obi Wan and others may have more details.
    #39
  20. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Or leave it out completely and file a little wee channel right on the bottom of the casting so if there is a leak fluid can escape
    #40