Is it ok to filter to b 1st?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by GSAragazzi, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Tjocksteffe

    Tjocksteffe I was

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    That I know, but this thread isn't there :rofl
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  2. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    It seems some folks are either confused or they're being deliberately obtuse.
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  3. pretbek

    pretbek Long timer

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    I call utter bullshit on everyone who gets all huffy about people who illegally filter because it is against the law.

    What, do you always drive at or under the speed limit? No? Then explain to me the difference.

    I think filtering mostly offends people's sense of "fairness", that filterers are "jumping the line".
    That's fine, valid explanation of the strong emotions. But the against-the-law argument is instantly moot if you ever speed.
    #83
  4. Human Ills

    Human Ills Useful Idiom

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    It doesn't seem that way, SOME people are.

    I'm not one of those people.
    #84
  5. thistle66

    thistle66 Been here awhile

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    Since the formatting of this post is awful to read, I'll give the cliffs:

    1) Some people get pissy at filtering because it means someone is getting ahead of them.
    2) There are laws in some places that make filtering technically illegal.




    My comments:
    1) Jealousy isn't a good thing but some folks let it become a big part of their lives.
    2) Just because it's technically illegal doesn't mean it's wrong.
    #85
  6. thistle66

    thistle66 Been here awhile

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    You totally forgot about the cars behind where our rider would have been if he stayed back in the pack. The bike filtering and escaping quickly off the front might allow that car previously 15th in line to get through the light whereas he might not have if the bike had stayed in the 14th spot and trundled through behind the other cars. This is more likely to happen than the process of the bike holding up traffic that you suggest - unless our hero on the bike is a slug off the line of course

    Scooting to the front frees up an extra space behind, see...! You forgot to factor that in.
    #86
  7. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard I have no soul

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    More than one if all the bikes at an intersection do it. :deal
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  8. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    When discussing it here in theory you are entirely correct, practicing it in the real world is a different matter.

    Think about it,
    If I choose to go 5 or 10 mph over the limit on the freeway who will notice? in many places that is the norm and expected.
    Here In Seattle I may see someone split lanes on the freeway 2 or 3 times a year and I'm on the road 8 to10 hours a day.
    If I choose to split lanes through a traffic jam, it's an action that stands out from everything else, every car I pass is going to notice it with the knowledge that it's illegal and they will see it in the same light they would a rider stunting on the street. It's not normal, expected or accepted.

    When permitted, the benefits of splitting and filtering far outweigh any additional risk or hurt feelings, even where illegal there are going to be times where it's going to be necessary or prudent, and the negatives have also been covered.
    All I'm really trying to say is we should acknowledge that when we choose to not follow the law we are in the wrong, and do it with discretion, reserving it for when really necessary. We shouldn't be using "safety" as an excuse to do it habitually, thats no better than the "loud pipes save lives" crowd, were not fooling anybody but ourselves when we do.

    Think about how we talk about car drivers making "bad choices" here, then think about how the other 99% of the people on the road are talking about us when we make "bad choices" Mostly it's about perception, not the actual outcome..

    We as riders need to do a better job, and think about our future before we make those choices.
    #88
  9. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    A Doctorate Degree in common sense?

    :dunno
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  10. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Your "logic" above fails because you assume that since both are illegal there is no other
    difference. But there is a huge difference in the hazard presented by speeding
    slightly vs. filtering. Obviously you are unable to understand this so I am going to explain it
    for you.


    When a bike "filters" in an area where filtering is not permitted by law, the bike is
    doing something which many drivers __would not expect to happen__.


    Filtering is significantly different from going a few mph over the speed limit,
    because the vehicle which is speeding slightly will still be doing what most
    of the drivers on the road expect it to do; it will still occupy the lane in which
    it is traveling, and will not present surprises to other motorists, many of whom
    may themselves be speeding slightly. But speeding does not cause their vehicles
    to be in a radically different position from what would be expected, and filtering
    does.


    Some of the drivers who are pissed off at you because you filtered might not be not pissed off
    because they are jealous -- they might well be pissed off because your bike appeared
    out of nowhere and they nearly hit you and it scared them. And they are not the ones
    who are wrong, you are when you filter in an area where the law prohibits it. See, the law
    is the set of rules which allows society to operate, and if you want to live in society you
    don't get to pick which laws you like and ignore the rest; that's not how it works.


    The only bullshit here is your flawed logic and your apparent insistence on filtering
    because you feel entitled to do it. Filtering is a bad idea not because it is illegal, but because
    WHEN IT IS ILLEGAL IT SURPRISES OTHER MOTORISTS and that creates an additional
    hazard which would not have been there if all the motorists on the road
    were doing what was expected of them. This problem is not limited to filtering : we
    have all been surprised by someone who changes lanes without using a turn signal.
    On a public road, surprise is a bad thing and predictability is a good thing.


    If you really want to filter, work to get the law changed and when filtering is legal the
    other drivers will expect it, and you can filter safely because it will be expected.



    .
    #90
  11. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Yeah, right up until the F-350 with dual rear wheels suddenly changes lanes and crushes
    the legs of the filtering rider. Then maybe it doesn't look like common sense
    as much as it looks like a call-out for the MBB helicopter on life flight duty.


    ( the preceding is a hypothetical scenario intended to illustrate that riding like an idiot
    may have dire consequences which seem to appear suddenly though they can often be predicted
    well in advance if you bother to think about what you are doing )




    .
    #91
  12. Human Ills

    Human Ills Useful Idiom

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    :csm
    #92
  13. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    WIth "comments" like the above it's easy to see how
    your post count is so high.


    .
    #93
  14. AZbiker

    AZbiker Crunkin' with crackers

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    Exactly how the fuck is your mythical dually going to change lanes when everyone is already stopped and packed in like sardines at an intersection?

    I filtered and shared for years every day through central Phoenix and I never saw anything close to what you're saying.

    And to "crush" it would have to roll over.

    When I was sharing if someone would have moved over it would have been uncomfortable and maybe left a few bruises, but crush?

    Give me a fucking break. :lol3

    Edit: Why the fuck did I even bother writing that?

    You are just some chickenshit fucktard that doesn't even bother to list ANYTHING about themselves in their profile.

    Feel free to go fuck yourself. :thumb
    #94
  15. _Davi_

    _Davi_ Adventurer

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    Living in the EU where it is legal, people here don't seem to understand that a filtered bike does NOT diminish anything for the cage in front AT ALL. Long line at a red. Filter through at a considerate pace. At the front, either slip in front of one of the two cars (even if it is all the way up, there is ALWAYS room for a bike length); if not, stay between the front two. Watch the damn light. When it goes green, goose it. There is NO car short of a lamborghini that can out-accelerate any of our bikes off the line, so you won't be holding anyone up.

    Green, goose, gone. Amirite? Of course I am. I do it every day.
    #95
  16. Human Ills

    Human Ills Useful Idiom

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    I will admit that you obviously spent a lot of time neatly typing up your ignorance for all to see.
    #96
  17. EJ_92606

    EJ_92606 Rider

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    For all you California haters....it's not illegal here!:clap
    #97
  18. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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  19. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

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    On the public road people should be fully aware of their surroundings... so a motorcycle slipping past should not be a surprise. Unfortunately most drive along with their brains in neutral which is why they get 'surprised'.

    A motorcycle filtering may be just what is needed to wake the drones up :1drinkThey are, afterall, operating vehicles on the public road and should be alert.
    #99
  20. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    These would be the same drivers who are no doubt so immersed in their own little world as to not be aware of what's going on around them? I don't see how they can hit you if they are stopped at a light.

    You mean the driver who is again not paying attention to their surroundings. And by that I mean the person changing lanes as well as the one who is being surprised.

    It is a sense of entitlement that causes drivers to get pissed off by filtering. If they didn't feel like they "owned" the road it wouldn't bother them. A bike going 1 or 2 MPH past a bunch of stopped cars does not put the car drivers or rider in danger.

    The legality of it is a different matter. If it is illegal where you are and you do it, it is breaking the law. Same as speeding. Same as texting or talking on a cell. Some laws make sense, some less so. It wasn't so long ago that we had laws based on race. Would you argue those laws were right because that was what people expected?