Is This Nuts??

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Steverino, Jul 31, 2002.

  1. Steverino

    Steverino Arrogant Horse's Ass #1

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    I recently discovered a neat little trick on the KRS. Being as it is such a heavy bitch and "not flickable" I was looking for ways to help initiate the roll from side to side on linked turns. You know, the left, then right, then left, then right kid of multiple turns rapidly in succession.

    We all know that hitting the front brake will stand the bike up when turning. So after I hit the apex and start to roll to the next turn, I gently tap the front brake. Rather than me having to flick the bike, it starts the transition itself and makes it so much easier to proceed to the next turn.

    My question is, how crazy is this? I've never seen it discussed anywhere and I don't want to continue to develop bad habits.

    I reinforce that the tap on the brake is very gentle. Seems to have worked very well for me the last couple of rides I have tried it on.
    #1
  2. jdiaz

    jdiaz .

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    I would be livid if I were following you thru a corner and I kept seeing that brake light coming on.

    Jon
    #2
  3. freaking RT

    freaking RT will golf for food

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    :nod I haven't been behind him when he's using this little "trick". So I haven't slapped him, yet :lol2
    #3
  4. ShaftEd

    ShaftEd Long timer

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    Steve, I suppose your using of the front brake to initiate trainsitions may work, but anytime I have a bike that stands up hard on the brakes, I try to fix it so it doesn't stand up on the brakes. To me this is not a good trait at all. I would look at different suspension settings or different tires to minimize the "stand up" tendancy. Is that a normal trait of all K1200RS's? The 1150GS does not do this at all, which is one of the reasons they are such good sportbikes.

    As for quick transitions in an "S" corner, here is what I do when I am really trying to make time. I will come into the first corner of the "S" turn hard on the brakes trailbraking and take the 1st corner without doing my normal downshift. I will wait until it is time to start the transition for the next corner and then do the downshift. As soon as the clutch is released the rear tire has to drag a bit before it matches revs with the engine, causing the rear tire to "catch" and flip the bike right over on it's other side. Of course YMMV, and you have to be careful that there is not too much difference between your engine revs and the rear tire revs or as soon as you release the clutch you will highside yourself into orbit. It takes a bit or practice.:eek:
    #4
  5. cyclecat

    cyclecat half post a day wonder

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    My guess is it's working fine right now, but that first time you do it on a wet or gravel-covered turn, you're going to wish you hadn't. You can get away with it in perfect traction conditions with a predictable traffic situation. But when you throw in an unpredicted hazard you'll either not have the needed traction, or you'll accidentally give it just a leetle bit too much brake .... and CRUNCH!

    Of course YMMV and it's your bike/skin/body/etc., but I wouldn't do it.
    #5
  6. Chrome

    Chrome Who's gnarly?

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    The word is counter-steering, guys.

    Steve, give a gentle push away from you on the handlebar on the side in which you want the bike to turn . It's counter-intuitive but trust me: that thing will roll into a new turn just as quick as you want. It will take you a while to build confidence but it works a treat.

    When you tap the front brake it is transferring weight forwards and changing the bike's geometry. You get two associated effects: the bike stands up and the suspension isn't settled for the next corner.

    Neither of these are conducive to maximizing traction or grip from the front tire. Most of the time you'll get away with it but you're effectively reducing your margin of error.

    On the other hand of course, I could be talking crap...
    #6
  7. Steverino

    Steverino Arrogant Horse's Ass #1

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    Thanks, I never knew that :rolleyes geez

    You called it what again? Counter?????

    I'll try that next time.
    #7
  8. jdiaz

    jdiaz .

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    Have you ever ridden a K1200RS in anger before? It handles pretty good, but if you are hauling ass and your inputs are merely "gentle" it'll just laugh till ya muster up the balls to wring it by the neck.

    I miss mine.

    Jon
    #8
  9. zero-zero

    zero-zero Horny Horned One

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    Steve, easy on the noob, man, he's just trying to help you. He just mistook you for a novice.:arg

    Man, you have certainly been in a really lousy mood lately, haven't you?

    Chrome, it pays to build a little background knowledge so you know exactly who you're talking to. I guess you aimed a little low this time, my friend.

    Let us all sing "kumbayĆ”" together now. :feelgood

    The SFIS.
    #9
  10. boyscout

    boyscout sittin' down

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    :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

    That's just an urban myth.

    -BS
    #10
  11. Steverino

    Steverino Arrogant Horse's Ass #1

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    Says to squeeze and pull all your inputs. Shit JD is right, you do that on a KRS and it will ride like a Gold Wing. To get that beyotch to perform requires dynamic inputs. Yeah baby, you gut to muscle that thing. I love it, just wait until the last second to turn-in and then jerk the living fuck out if it in the opposite direction and around you go. Absolutley incredible ride IMHO. The times I have gotten myself in trouble is when I am riding kind of easy and lazily enter a turn, not a good thing on the KRS. She likes to be thrown around.

    Chrome, SFIS is right, my response was a little over the top. I appreciate your advice. Countersteering is truly the only way to turn a scoot. I am just looking for a little help from the physics of the machine to use it to handle even better.

    I remember the first time on my favorite road on the KRS, about drove the Feakster crazy I was going so slow. Now that I have gotten used to it and acquired the confidence in it that you refer to Chrome, I haven't heard Freak complaining any more.
    #11
  12. Chrome

    Chrome Who's gnarly?

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    Thanks for the advice, zero-zero. Didn't even realize he was being sarcastic. :eek:ogle

    I had no idea people were so touchy round here. Or is this just an ADVrider initiative to challenge the stereotype of bikers as tough and insensitive?:lol1

    Sorry if I offended you, Steve. Mind you, I'm a Brit. I apologize to everyone...
    #12
  13. jdiaz

    jdiaz .

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    Maybe his retinas are scorched from all your brake light action and it killed his vocal cords. :)

    Jon
    #13
  14. Steverino

    Steverino Arrogant Horse's Ass #1

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    :dood, OKOKOKOK I get it. Retinas scorched. :rofl
    #14
  15. Steverino

    Steverino Arrogant Horse's Ass #1

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    Brit, Smit, what does that matter. I came as close as I could to apologizing in the above thread. Can't we just kiss and make up?????????


    :feelgood
    #15
  16. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Enjoying the ride

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    My goal when riding the twisties is that my speed be the same when I exit as when I enter the turn. If all the connecting turns have the same radius, camber, and surface texture then handle bar input (aka counter steer) is the best transition. When I was twenty something my next door neighbor,this Italian guy, who rode a lot faster than I said that every corner should be ridden as if you are on ice. Super smooth with NO speed change while corning. This is my goal every time I see a turn. The whole deal is picking the entry speed right. After that, the rest is easy.

    There are always tricks to doing things, but simpler is better.

    Patrick
    #16
  17. fish

    fish Banned

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    have you ever been on a road like that?
    #17
  18. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Enjoying the ride

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    The point I was failing to make clear enough for even you is that the turn radius, camber and surface texture dictate the "entrance = exit" speed thing. I don't ride at 95% on every turn, so if the turns are at all similar, then just get the entrance speed right and the rest is pretty easy with the GS (or any good bike). The oilhead is a 600 # bike that rides LIKE it's 400 #s. But, if you want to hone race skills, then get a bike that actually weighs 400 #s, has a lower center of gravity, and is designed for such antics. The oilhead is most fun when ridden with a velvet touch on the stoppers and the whip hand. When you know the road and you start carving gravity with a 600 # GS butter knife, and you lie those big jugs over with the graceful touch of a super smooth rider, then the chaios that dwarfs our existance has no signicant meaning. The smoothest application of power is rewarded with cosmilogical harmony, but just for those breaf momtents of our gravity art. Some day, perhaps after hundreds of thousands of miles of practice I will see myself as a gravity artist, and not a rider.

    Patrick
    #18
  19. JUIJITSU

    JUIJITSU FACTOTUM

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    If you are breaking in a corner, you are doing something wrong. I brake in corners when I go in to hot or mis read the corner, thus I'm bad too, but I don't due it on purpose, but it is instinct taking over in a panic, Counter steer is the key, Try shifting your body weight and head side to side in the transition more to make the bike feel like it is falling over in the corners. It feels good, the brake always feels bad in a corner.
    #19
  20. supercreep

    supercreep _______________

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    homo
    #20