JeffCo Sheriff deputy fatality

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by greenramp, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. kbuckey

    kbuckey Long timer

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    My dad was a fighter pilot. He flew combat in P-38s and P-51s in WWII and F-51s and F-80s (and a few other birds) in Korea. He also flew a bunch of other fighters including the F-104, F-102, F-106 and was flying the F-101B when he retired from the Air Force. When he retired from the Air Force he never flew again. At all. Said there was no way he could keep current enough flying private planes.

    He was also a very good driver. When he was 76 he hit a deer. He said that was it, he wasn't going to drive any more. I asked him why - hitting a deer is fairly commonplace in rural PA. He said maybe so, but he should have been able to miss that one and he wasn't going to drive any more. I thought he was driving better than most of the population at that point, but he wasn't driving up to HIS standards. I really respected him for that.

    Wish more people understood their limitations. . . .
    #21
  2. JustinP

    JustinP Long timer

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    Not sure if it's related, but I went for a ride last night and the Jeffco Sheriffs were out in force running speed traps. I can't remember the last time I passed a Jeffco sheriff running stationary radar/laser at night where I ride. Last night I passed 4.
    #22
  3. fast4d

    fast4d Long timer

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    this sh!t happens everyday.

    just this week in L.A. an 87 y.o. man ran a stop sign and plowed into a family of 5 using the crosswalk.
    #23
  4. Veteran Noob

    Veteran Noob Astoundingly Unremarkable

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    Couldn't disagree more. I don't think the system works for any drivers. Driving (and riding) is a right in this country, not a privilege. We make it easy to get a license and we're loathe to take it away, regardless of impairments or history (as long as you're willing to pony up for any transgressions).

    Of course, that's more or less moot, given that the punishment for operating without proper authorization amounts to little more than a slap on the wrist (not to mention the slim chance of getting caught).
    #24
  5. greenramp

    greenramp Airborne

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    this may happen every day over there but in the United States it isn't so common.:rofl

    I agree testing should happen more regularly but I don't feel comfortable with those DMV fools deciding if I am competent, passing a test is easy.
    #25
  6. RedShark

    RedShark Long timer

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    2: Driving is PLENTY complicated and a LOT more crowded - and obviously potentially just as fatal

    3: Why don't we Americans want more rigorous testing ? Because many of us are lazy, entitled, self-centered fools.

    4: The penalty for driving w/o a license should be made MUCH more serious - like heavy fines/community service for the 1st offense and some time in a cell for further abuse of the law.

    5: Yes, RIP to the deceased - he and his family deserve MUCH better.
    #26
  7. Rango

    Rango Phaneropter

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    Interesting development of the thread.
    Driver could as easily been a teener, tweener. What then? teener bashing? Tweener bashing?

    No degree of testing will ban accidents. That nanny state mentality will ultimately smother civilisation.

    There are some theme related neighbouring threads: faster always better, hi-viz believers.
    Well worth to compare arguments. No matter how well prepared one is, we all need some luck, good fortune, karma, whatever..., from time to time.


    Sincere condolences to the motorcyclist's relatives.
    To all bro's: be wary out there! :deal
    #27
  8. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    Age does NOT have a thing to to with driver competence. It's an individual matter. It has to do with mental and physical state and eyesight. A good friend of mine actively roadraced a 1949 handshift WR H-D until he was 85. He passed away last year at the age of 89, sharp as a tack until the end.

    There are a whole lot more incompetent young drivers out there than there are old timers.
    #28
  9. Bar None

    Bar None Candy Ass

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  10. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    Sure. You for, or against?

    Putting someone on a bike costs a fair chunk- the bike, or the car for when they can't ride the bike, the extra gear for the bike, training for the bike, limited carrying capacity...

    Offset that by good first response capability, good PR, maybe cheaper to operate (MPG of a Tahoe, Charger, or Mustang, vs. any motorcycle, when doing point-and-squirt traffic stops?)

    In some European cities, they use FJRs as first response paramedic bikes. That's a capability I'd like to see explored more in the states.

    If you're in Denver and can get the time go to the funeral. If the weather's amenable, ride there. Tie a blue ribbon on your jacket or on the bike; show some support. No matter how you feel about the police, that RIDER's family is hurting right now. I can only offer wishes for peace to them and his friends and co-workers.
    #30
  11. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    I have wondered about the economics of police MC as done in the USA. My cost per mile on my motorcycle is higher than in my car. This is primarily due to the cost of tires, and general maintenance. The policeman would be covered by workman's comp too, I wonder how that premium compares to a patrol car.

    There is the, have to call a car to take a arrested person in, limited equipment and most cases chases are limited because of safety. The only benefit is lane splitting maneuverability issues. Now if you had officers patrolling on small single cylinder bikes, maybe that would be cost effective for lots of situations.

    Does not seem generally cost effective.

    Rod
    #31
  12. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    I have yet to see an octogenarian blindly running red lights while texting.
    #32
  13. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    Thanks for the heads up.
    #33
  14. joexr

    joexr Banned

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    They're just not usually texting when they do it.:lol3
    #34
  15. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    As a cop, I'll just say rest easy now brother and prayers for your family.
    #35
  16. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    No- just cluelessly running red lights.

    As we age, at some point our capacity to handle input begins to decrease. Knowing that it will, waiting for an event to show up on our driving record as a warning seems foolhardy. Since we all move along our own timelines, SO DOES just waiting until a certain age. I would be perfectly fine with driver testing at given intervals throughout our lives, and shortening the intervals over a certain age, possibly with training to refresh skills. Say, for example, ages 16, 20, 25, 30, 50, 60, 65, 70. Make them honest tests of skill. We ask motorcyclists to be able to perform collision avoidance maneuvers, when all you need to do for a driver's license is not hit something.

    Part of the problem with older people still [trying to] drive is cultural- they always have and hate to feel dependent, but as importantly, there's no other way. "Success" has put them in the 'burbs or had the support system (kids) move away, and groceries don't deliver themselves.
    #36
  17. AST236

    AST236 Long timer

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    Rest in peace, Brother....
    #37
  18. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    Except for maneuverability, a smaller bike isn't going to help much. You'll save a little on purchase price and maybe get a little better MPG, but you're giving up comfort and capacity to haul all the standard issue crap around.

    Bikes excel at traffic and escort work. The problem is- and any LEO feel free to prove me wrong- I don't see much motor officer training focused on practicing cornering (outside of cone work) or other high speed riding. Oregon does. We put about 70 motor officers through high speed cornering last year, giving them a chance to train with their adrenaline pumping and feel how the bikes handle at speed.

    I like the PR, not just for police departments, but for motorcyclists. Sure, it costs a little, but people take an interest. And if PR isn't useful, why do departments still have mounted horse patrols? It'd be interesting to see how that pencils out. I don't see many traffic stops being made from horseback. (Although I've seen a bicycle cop make a traffic stop...)

    OTOH, a lot of motor officers are commanded by either someone that's never done that job and may not even ride, or someone that's indoctrinated to procedures (gear, tactics, training) 50 years out of date and not interested in moving forward.
    #38
  19. Veteran Noob

    Veteran Noob Astoundingly Unremarkable

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    #39
  20. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    One could just look at insurance rates for different age groups. Those with the most accidents pay the most.
    #40