Just beggin' for it. Oil question.

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by Kelly_O, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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    #21
  2. lake_harley

    lake_harley Been here awhile

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    I read the article you linked, and some parts of the longer article it referenced. It all left me still a bit confused, especially on the TC and TC3, or is it TCW3 ratings. The longer article talks about Sea-Doo only wanting the TC oil in their engines. If I caught it right it offers better protection at higher temps, etc. etc... Sounds like a really good oil for a 2-stroke bike(?), or not? Or, is TCW3 (or TC3?) OK for air-cooled bikes?
    Being rather new (again) to 2-strokes I'm still confused about what to use in the F7 175 Kawasaki I'm working on. I'm building it to a "street-tracker" theme. I'm going against much of the opinion given when I inquired about going to pre-mix, rather than keep the injection system. The injection system is gone from the bike and stored away for a future owner, injection-is-better purist. So-o-o-o, brands aside, what rating oil do I use? FWIW, I have a Sea-Doo jet ski, so I have the oil on hand that they recommend and I think I gleaned out of the article that it's TC oil. I also have TCW3 (I think) oil on hand too, since that's what I use when I decide to punish myself by (on rare occasion) using the weedeater trimmer.

    Lynn
    #22
  3. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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    I found the link helpful in explaining the different bases for the oils in question and the relative differences in oils intended for injection purposes vs mixing.... My take away is that for premix the castor derived oils still provide superior film strength but cost more and have some other side effects- more smoke and possible ring/power valve sticking. Many of the synthetics are aimed toward use with injection systems.

    I came upon the article while looking for a proper oil to use in my Honda RS250 race bike this season- the machine is new to me and the Castor A747 recommended by HRC is no longer available. From all I've read, the choice for this machine came down to the Maxima Castor 927 or Motul 800 2t... all are blends and have reportedly some amount of bean oil in them but none are like the oils of yesteryear. I'm going to go with the Maxima as it's easier to get my paws on.

    Of course, the F7 175 in question here is hardly one to be exposed to extreme stresses- it's not a racer and it probably won't need to survive being WFO for 80% of the time. You will probably be able to use just about any oil that'll mix with decent results- if you have cases of the oil for your Sea-Doo in the shed I'd go ahead and give it a shot- Just don't go much below 35:1 unless you are going to be spending a lot of time at low RPM.

    Personally, I'd stick with the injection system if it's available and functional- your engine was designed for long service with it providing the lubrication and mixing fuel and oil is a pain in the rear everywhere but at the track.
    #23
  4. pdxjim

    pdxjim Two Stroke Terror

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    Your old Kwakker will run fine on any old 2T oil you put in it.

    Cheap chainsaw oil will gunk it up quicker, but expensive synthetic oil will put a hole in your wallet.

    The choice is yours.
    #24
  5. fallingoff

    fallingoff Banned

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    Amate of mine still puts some castor oil in his same period2t
    Brings back memories when I smell it
    What is the modern thinking on castor oil

    Sniff sniff lol

    Cheers
    #25
  6. lake_harley

    lake_harley Been here awhile

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    Thanks Tim. I bought three F7 Kaw's and after riding the running/riding one last evening for the first time on the highway, it almost sounded like it was almost WFO at 55 MPH. :eek1 The Sea-Doo oil is rather pricy as I recall from the last time I bought some, but I might use it in the current injected bike until I sell it. On the "tracker" pre-mix bike I had settled on 32:1 being a good ratio from all of comments on the pre-mix vs. injected thread I started. Your mention of not going below 35:1 would bear that out. Where I live the riding I do is almost all at 50 MPH+.

    Do the Maxima Castor 927 or Motul 800 oils you mentioned stay mixed in with the gas well, rather than separate out like the article mentioned some bean oil based oils do? I remember a friend of mine, who had an OSSA years ago, always gave it a good shake, side-to-side, when he got on it.

    Thanks

    Lynn
    #26
  7. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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    On my race bikes the fuel always gets mixed the day of use... but that's more about fresh gas than the oil falling out of suspension, so I really can't comment about that. I have never had any visible separation but it can happen under the correct conditions.... another possible plus for the newer blends. Even the mighty A747 was a blended oil, not a straight castor base (who knows how much actual castor oil remains in it), and what little was left in the racer when I tore it down for inspection was still in suspension.

    The old shake the bike side to side may be more of a nervous habit than anything else. The good news is most oils are colored such that they will dye the fuel once mixed- any separation will be clearly visible as dark blue/green/purple/brown sludge in the bottom of your tank.
    #27
  8. deerslayR

    deerslayR Spodely Adventurer

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    Agreed that castor brings back memories. Just doesn't do a great job lubricating the way newer synthetics and blends do. Gets gooey in the cold and is too thin in the heat. Old tech that was "cutting edge" in the 60's. :D
    I use this:
    [​IMG]

    Works well premixed (EXC 250) or in an injection tank (1970 Suzuki TC250 Scrambler). Very few fouled plugs. NO seizures. ever.

    #28
  9. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

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    #29
  10. deerslayR

    deerslayR Spodely Adventurer

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  11. lake_harley

    lake_harley Been here awhile

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    I sell racing parts to circle track/stock car racers, including scented top oil that's primarily for those running alky and fuel scent that can be used in gas too. Cherry scent top oil, well OK...grape and some of the others, maybe....but pina colada (seriously), now really that's just a little too, um, feminine, isn't it?:lol3 I think I'll just let my smoke smell like smoke.

    Lynn
    #31
  12. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

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    In the '80s when I was a drag racing nut, the Jolly Rancher company sponsored a Funny Car. They would mix their alcohol-based flavorings with their fuel, and after a 1/4 mile pass everyone in the grandstands would have their mouth watering.:rofl
    Pretty effective advertising.
    #32
  13. fallingoff

    fallingoff Banned

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    true
    but i buy not bacon from the store
    must be g
    pork on ur fork
    porked again
    #33