Just for Shits and Grins; the ShogyGrid K1100 Frankin-tranny

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Shoganai, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. Tin Bender

    Tin Bender Adventurer

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    Oops...

    Almost forgot. I wanted to mention that you can often save money and acquire better than original quality bearings from bearing specialty houses. Virtually any bearing made is available from several different manufacturers by cross referencing the numbers stamped on the bearing. SKF, NTN, FAG, Timken and so many others.

    What's interesting is bearings are made to certain 'classes' of quality and can be upgraded. From a class 4 to a 5, a 5 to a 6 and so on. The higher classed bearings are made of a better quality material, better heat treat, closer tolerances and such. Often the better classed bearing can be had through the bearing houses for LESS that the OEM or parts house replacements.

    Just throwing this out there...FYI.
    #61
  2. Shoganai

    Shoganai Let's do some livin'

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    Tin, Thank you very much, that is great info. :clap

    Oh, and the documentation is so I can remember how it all goes back together. :lol3
    #62
  3. Shoganai

    Shoganai Let's do some livin'

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    I forgot to mention earlier I bought these so I didn't have to go upstairs to the garage for tools and that way if Steve needed them they would be there for him.

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    I also bought this today. FINALLY a decent snap ring tool!
    2.0 on the right of course.

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    One more thing...I have this PERFECT input shaft out of another K1100RS. Does anyone see a problem with putting this one in this tranny?

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    #63
  4. Shoganai

    Shoganai Let's do some livin'

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    I have a couple of questions.

    It was suggested by a friend the if I use the input shaft above I replace the helical gear from this shaft with the helical gear from the original shaft.

    The reasoning being that gears that have spent 181,000 miles together were 'mated'.

    [​IMG]

    If that is the case, would I also need to transfer all of this a swell?

    [​IMG]


    One more thing. While digging through some old emails I found this.

    Before disassembling, measure axial clearance
    of spur gear for 1st, 2nd and 5th gears.
    1st gear .... 0.10...0.30 mm (0.003937...0.01181in)
    2nd gear ... 0.20...0.60 mm (0.007874...0.02362in)
    5th gear .... 0.20...0.40 mm (0.007874...0.01575in)


    Well clearly I forgot to do that and neither Clymer nor BMW manuals prompted me.

    How badly have I screwed up?
    #64
  5. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    ^^^^ Don't know about them axial clearances but I'd say yes about keeping the gears mated for life. But curious if you know about establishing gear tooth contact patterns with Prussian Blue? I may have to get into something like that so been studying, may give you a good clue as to how well they mate.

    A smile anyway:

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    Oooops, that would be me after a week of digging up bearings and BMW specs.

    [​IMG]

    Then I ate him first.:dg
    #65
  6. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Is this a groove from where the seal wore on the shaft? They also make things called speedy sleeves that will slide over a shaft and give your seal a new surface to ride on. You can use loctite sleeve retainer if you need some extra assurance to hold the speedy sleeve on the shaft.

    http://www.skf.com/files/344136.pdf

    Also on bearings you can buy bearings from bearing houses, but you want to get the same class that the manufacture used. The bearing houses can also give you the specs for the interferance fit of the bearing to the shaft. This is important, because the class of bearing is sized to the interferance fit with the shaft. More interference you use a class with a looser internal clearance to end up with the same ball to race cleareance. The correct ball to race clearance is the goal. The class fit should be part of the numbers stamped on the race. One that I recall off the top of my head is C3 which I think is the middle of the road clearance for average interference fits.

    David
    #66
  7. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    This is pretty cool. Glad I found your thread.

    David
    #67
  8. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    My guess, I would keep any worn mated parts together.

    On the gear lash measurements, as long as everything turns out all right you should be okay. The idea is to measure the wear and then you know how much lash is in the system, and hopefully you get the same results when you go back together. If not you start over. Now you don't have a baseline execpt for the specs in the book. I'd say keep going as the gears aren't really worn at all and you'll probably be fine.

    David
    #68
  9. Shoganai

    Shoganai Let's do some livin'

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    Thanks David :D
    The project is back on hold while a whole lot of life gets in the way thru mid June.

    So stayed tuned to the same Bat Channel when our Batty Biker Baytach continues bringing the :huh :twitch :jack :*sip* :oscar :scratch :lol3

    #69
  10. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    I have subscribed to the thread, if that is what your hinting at. :rofl

    There is this BMW mechanic type guy by Roberts Montana. As he seems to be a generally nice guy and a little eclectic you might want to keep him on speed dial for the serious questions. I've just given you my best guess answer, he might give you real live "mechanic advice" TM.

    David
    #70
  11. Bob Ain't Stoppin'

    Bob Ain't Stoppin' Been here awhile

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    Shogs, Having rebuild over 100 gear reducers (not transmissions) I would like to offer comments on the bearings & seals issues. You can try to source the bearings from a local house if you want, but I have found that automotive bearings tend to be hard to source that way. But if they can match up the numbers from your old bearings, I strongly recommend Timken. When I use anything else, the lower quality is noticeable.

    About speedy sleeves. These things work great, but are a bit difficult to install. You will actually stretch the sleeve over the shaft. The metal of the sleeve is very thin and brittle (read hard), so care is needed. You shouldn't need any locktite on this. The installation tube that comes with the speedy sleeve will likely be too short to extend over the spline. You'll need to find any tubing (pvc, copper etc) of the right diameter to use as a pusher. Then smoothly push the speedy sleeve on and peel off the flared end (it's pre grooved to peel off smoothly). Your new oil seal would be the same number as the old and will not leak because the speedy sleeve is hardened and won't groove.

    Good luck.
    #71