Kevlar & Kevlar Mesh riding gear

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by teizms, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. Ko

    Ko Observant as never

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    As a potential customer, I can't refrain from wanting to pay as little as possible :lol3 Can't say I thought of a price, but what would help everybody is to have the option of getting a discount for buying both jacket/pants, even if they're not bought at the same time- if you're already doing it then ignore.

    With regards to 'compromising', that's the wrong way to start a conversation about kevlar products :deal I'd think that people who own or would like to own such products are doing it in an effort to get the best fabric there is. Otherwise, plenty of choices out there. Hence this gear should carry a premium price just because you DON'T want to compromise on fabric, assembly, armour- and armour coverage, and warranty. And yes, it would be great if there was an option for T-Pro armour, I understand the cost issues, just saying that it would be great if one could buy your product knowing that everything is top-notch.

    I have kevlar gear, not mesh, and as others have said, my main complaint is the bulkiness- the material itself is awesome, saved my ass couple times, once saved it big time.

    My wife and I would be in the market for a 2-piece suit with 360 zipper, if the suit is not a compromise :evil


    .
    #21
  2. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    wow - great feedback

    lol yeah i dont think i worded that correctly. i just wanted to say gimme your priority list of features

    All our 2 piece stuff always has 2 sets of zippers, one 360 and one 8 inch so you can take your pick


    take a look at the new Diego updates - we have added fabric panels behind the blows and arms for added comfort then you are sitting on the bike. The updated cuffs on the new textile stuff works excellent too - much more comfortable and easier to work with.
    #22
  3. lucas123

    lucas123 Been here awhile

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    Do it.

    I had considered suggesting this to you a couple of months ago.
    You must have read my mind. :D
    #23
  4. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    picking this project up again as well. any kind of feedback is appreciated.
    #24
  5. W-Gator

    W-Gator Adventurer

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    I'm looking for some functional and protective riding gear. Here's my feedback:
    • Effective for 4 season use.
    • Not too tight, not too loose.
    • Waterproof/ windproof outer layer. No leakage. Having said that, I'm willing to wear a rain suit when needed over otherwise excellent riding gear.
    • Good ventilation capability with outer panels in place.
    • Removable outer panels on the jacket to expose lots of mesh for maximum ventilation.
    • Comfortable neck. If the neck is uncomfortable, its junk.
    • Smart design (comfortable and functional) sleeves at wrist with appropriate weather barriers, flaps and zips. Same opinion as for neck comfort. Sleeves need to work with a variety of glove styles.
    • Functional and durable zippers.
    • 2-way main zipper to enable opening from the bottom as another ventilation option.
    • Normal non-eye-searing color options. Hi viz and/ or reflective patches are good.
    • Light color options to reflect summer sun rays.
    • Ability to zip in a thermal layer.
    • Sufficient capacity inside pocket with closure for wallet, phone, passport. A separate (seldom accessed) chest security pocket for registration/ insurance and spare key. A couple of reasonably sized outer pockets with closures. No need to go crazy about the number of outside pockets.
    • Sufficiently long leg zips to enable easily donning and removing pants with boots on.
    • Adjustability for positioning knee armor so that it stays in the right place.
    • Waist adjustment to accommodate with or without other pants under the riding pants.
    When will you have my set built? :D
    #25
  6. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    put a price on it ;) what is all of that worth to you?
    #26
  7. Boredsurfer

    Boredsurfer Been here awhile

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    .... and it has preformed as advertised and the versatility is fantastic.

    However, like many here, the suit makes me feel like I'm wearing a cardboard box - even after plenty of break in. I think the key to using this material is in "panels" - i.e. put kevlar in areas that receive a lot of air flow for the rider on any bike, and then sew it to your "superfabric" to give the garment some type of shape. Also because of the fit of my kevlar suit, I always feel like no matter how much I cinch it in place, it would still "twist" over my body in a crash. Perhaps having a more fitted suit would prevent that? I dunno.

    I assume you won't be offering a liner either because I know you prefer over-suits.

    KLIM will be introducing their version of a kevlar suit this year - but guaranteed their version will be too much dough for most. There is an opportunity here.

    Speaking of, here's another opportunity - let me send my Motoport suit to you to tailor the garment to have some type of fit and shape to it. I tell you what, I volunteer my suit for prototyping - you just send back something cool for me to wear :)
    #27
  8. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    2013 is the year of the Jackets & Pants. Our one-piece lineup is already very diverse and complete.

    We currently offer thermal liners so that trend can continue for any future products. However, i don't think we will offer any waterproof liners as with our current high-end products. We encourage rain gear on top of your riding suit. With excellent options available for incredibly reasonable prices, we have not felt the need yet to introduce our own waterproof gear.

    the comments about comfort are recurring - it will definitely handled.
    #28
  9. JTT

    JTT Long timer

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    Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Motoport mesh kevlar jacket. Mesh material feels bulletproof and vents wonderfully...but is very bulky, uncomfortable and harsh on anything around it (almost like wearing a suit made of emery paper). I had the pleasure to try on a pair of the stretch kevlar pants this summer, thanks to Levain, and the material felt great! Soft, stretchy, and yet still kevlar.

    As far as features, I would like the option of a good fitting (key here) over-pant of stretch kevlar. Simple solid colours, with some tastefully placed reflective. No stripes, banners, splashes, checkered flags, etc please.

    I also agree with comments BikePilot made about armour. I like the larger, softer/comfortable armour like Aerostich uses. I have seen some of the newer high tech stuff such as Klim uses, the trouble is they are tiny and the odds of me actually landing on that postage stamp sized pad is slim to none, particularly when used in a moderately loose fitting garment. This is something that Halvarrsons have done well with the safety suit concept, as the armour is firmly planted to your body.

    How about an armour system within a comfortable, moderately loose (not a potato sack Motoport style PLEASE) with armour that can be cinched to the body? Some sort of internal baffle arrangement maybe? With an easily released function for easy on and off?

    So basically what I want is something that fits like my Darien pants, with an armour system like Forcefield's Pro Pants, only integrated into a single garment that can still be put on and taken off with the ease of the Dariens. Stretch Kevlar, fitted and available in Tall sizes. If it could be waterproof and breathable, that would be a bonus.

    Not asking much :D I'd gladly pay $300 for such a garment...hopefully before spring :deal
    #29
  10. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    book two for me :deal
    any type of kevlar pants would definitly b $300+
    #30
  11. JTT

    JTT Long timer

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    One can dream right? :rofl
    I'm actually more than happy with superfibre, if it's cheaper, as it's about abrasion resistance in high wear areas, butt, knees, hips. The advantage of the stretch kevlar is the comfort factor (soft and stretchy), while still having abrasion protection.
    #31
  12. mabuz

    mabuz Adventurer

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    Im new to the ADV scene, and have been looking into kevlar riding clothing and plan to purchase some this spring, and if you can guess, I have narrowed it down to something along the lines of Motoport or Aerostitch. :eek1

    The price, although hefty, is not an issue to me when considering this type of quality riding gear. As painful as it is to drop a grand or more for a jacket and pants, I think its more than worth it if I were to ever need this equipment.

    My problem is pretty much the same as a lot of people note, as dumb as it sounds, is how these clothes look and/or fit. One is just bulky and ill fitting from a lot of reviews, while the other makes you look like a power ranger. In essence, buying good quality kevlar riding gear is similar to voting for a president in the fact that you pretty much end up going with the one you dislike the least.

    If you could make something with equal quality and protection as these other manufacturers, and somehow have the fit and looks be a bit "nicer" you'd have a winner in my opinion. While I can fully appreciate function over form, I would definitely choose something that has both function and form if all other factors were the same.
    #32
  13. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    You can't really talk about mesh kevlar without comparing to Motoport. The two things Motoport does well is armor coverage and seam strength. Any chance of more armor coverage?

    I've been considering a hybrid Motoport jacket. Mesh on arms, stretch on the body. For one of your suits, maybe mesh on arms and back, then a lighter cordura on the front, under arms etc.? Seems you could do a highly vented suit with minimal seams. Even better with the stretch kevlar, but thats going to add to the cost. It is an amazing fabric though.

    Someone mentioned the collar. That is always a deal killer for me. So far, Rukka is the only manufacturer to nail that for me and their's couldn't be simpler. I suppose that is part of the problem. The manufacturers want to over think the simple stuff. Sometimes, simple works!

    Ditch the velcro cinches on the arms. Again, look at what Rukka does with snaps. I've never seen a jacket that actually pulled elbow armor square on the elbow. Rukka nails this small detail with their perfect tailoring and the use of snaps vs. velcro. Speaking of velcro, leave it all off! Hate the stuff!

    I'd like your jacket to zip to my motoport pants JTT mentioned:lol3

    Fewest seams possible. Same with the logos.
    #33
  14. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    i am not going to compare it to the Motoport at the moment - not because of performance but simply because (a) they have a different direction in materials (b) their general marketing terms are beyond me and (c) their "looks" are significantly different direction from pretty much anyone.

    with regards to Aero, there is no doubt that we have a superior product in the form of the current Power Shell. Specs are here:
    http://store.teizms.com/power-shell
    I am sure several folks will have their own opinions but for me the standard armor provided, SuperFabric, the comfort, the ventilation etc are far beyond the RC. If you want the waterproof layer to be fused to your suit (always continously wearing a rainsuit) then perhaps thats the choice for you.
    http://www.teizms.com/blog/2011/09/19/waterproof-jackets-and-liners/
    #34
  15. vnp514

    vnp514 Been here awhile

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    How about some type of trade in program? If we bought one of your suits(I did-Powershell) and wanted to trade up to Kevlar, give us a decent price for our used Teiz gear(depending on condition of course). You could re-condition the used gear, and resell it.

    Pete
    #35
  16. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    i have no idea when we will introduce kevlar based gear -but we always take good care of return customers regardless...

    "recondition" in USA is an extremely expensive process...
    #36
  17. teizms

    teizms Long timer

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    all good ideas :freaky
    #37
  18. bigbadandugly

    bigbadandugly Been here awhile

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    I'm not sure how you can build as good a product as Motoport and do it cheaper. My understanding is that his Swiss supplier charges him $200 a square yard for the Kevlar and it takes around 1.75 to 2 sq. yards to do a jacket.

    The material cost and US labour costs alone make it an expensive endeavour.
    #38
  19. kevinj

    kevinj Been here awhile

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    To summarize,
    - around $1000-1200 for jacket plus pants that
    - look flattering
    - are truly protective
    - I can make work year-round in a moderate climate with rain



    I currently still ride in the cheap stuff I bought at cyclegear 2-3 years ago when I started riding and had so little money that I had no other options. I've been considering an upgrade for a long time, but every time I start doing research, I give up at some point. My hang-ups:

    * Protection has to be demonstrably better than what I have. I believe that Motoport is actually safer than most; same goes for certain suits by other manufacturers. Other brands, e.g. rev-it, I'm really not so sure. Few brands communicate in a clear-enough way that I really trust their statements; certification is a murky swamp, etc.

    * I want the BEST quality of armor. If T-Pro is better than Sas-Tec, then for Heaven's sake put it in there!! Or let me buy it as a supplement.

    * Since I ride year-round, I have to be able to make the outfit work in all seasons (Seattle WA).

    * MOST IMPORTANTLY. I have discovered that ATGATT is not natural for me. One reason is that my motorcycle is my only vehicle: it's not just for whole-afternoon rides on Saturday and Sunday, but also for a 10 minute trip to the store, to go meet a date at a restaurant, and to go to work. If the suit isn't somewhat EASY to wear and, most of all, ATTRACTIVE LOOKING - in other words, if I wouldn't feel good about my date seeing me arrive and park wearing it - then I will often just head out in regular street clothes plus a helmet and gloves. I'm not arguing that this is a smart approach - all I'm saying is, I've gotten to know myself over the years. I tried on an Aerostich 1-piece suit at a gear swap event - haha, I would never wear something so butt ugly!

    * No clumsy liner business (I agree with the Teiz blog take on liners).

    * I believe that leather is awesome, yet I don't see myself putting up with the disadvantages of the material.

    * I want a 2 piece suit.

    * I am skittish about buying before trying it on - the right fit is so important. That is one reason I may end up going with BMW in the end (there is a dealership here where I can try everything on) -- incidentally, I think the new Teiz formula of shipping a trial suit is a good move.


    If you combine most of those ideas, you end up looking at things like the Rukka Armas and the Touratech/Stadler Companero. Those are roughly $2500 for jacket+pants, and that is more than my budget can support. Ideally, I would like to SPEND $1000-1200 on a suit (jacket+pants) that convinces me that it is worth that much in quality of materials and workmanship. Not to mention that I have some misgivings about the Cordura used in even those high-end products, as well as the Superfabric etc. (which has great lab results going for it, but what about road results? I once saw a test video of someone crashing (deliberately!) in a Rukka Armas and the results were not as impressive as hoped).


    I'm almost certainly buying early 2013 so keep me in the loop :).
    #39
  20. kevinj

    kevinj Been here awhile

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    Addendum - so for me it's not Motoport's price that keeps me from buying it, but rather looks (and perhaps the liner business). Wayne (Motoport) has argued that it is difficult to replicate his quality for less money, and that he has far lower markup (mrsp vs. cost of materials) than most cordura based suits, and I thought he sounded convincing.

    Give me the looks of the Rukka/Stadler with the safety of Motoport for the price of Motoport or a little more, and I'm your customer.
    #40