Kick-starting LC4 with dead battery?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by magli, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Oddometer:
    800
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL near Alligator Alley

    Does the Aussie part that ends in .100 have an "off" position?
    #41
  2. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,687
    Location:
    Nelson, New Zealand
    The Parts Book for my 2005 LC4 Adventure EU/AUS model lists part:
    600.11.074.000 START-STOP SWITCH/LIGHT SW. 03 (START NOTAUS/LICHT EIN-AUS 03)
    This is the complete switch block with wiring back to the connector, item #42. By cross-referencing in Munn's fiche, that returned the (USA?) 03 LC4A and the 06 EU/AUS/UK Adventures.

    Interesting... I then drilled into the USA (presumably) 2003 LC4 Adventure Wiring Harness page, and found this:
    600.11.074.100 START-STOP SWITCH 03
    Note the .100 and the description difference.

    Stu, are your part numbers for the switch internals to go into the switch block assembly?
    #42
  3. Stu

    Stu Buffo Maximus

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Eastern YahooLand
    No.

    That said, I would add that I put one of these switches on a 2002 LC4 "hard enduro" with a straight plug in, one on a 625 SXC with a straight plug in and the last one, just installed, on a '07 525 EXC which also just plugged right in. All of the functions worked on all of the machines with the exception of the 525 where the kill switch had to be soldered into the existing wiring in order to have the stock kill switch on the right side and a second one in the CEV switch on the left. The color coding on the 525 and the CEV did not match at all but the functions were all the same (i.e., the horn, lights, turnsignals and off switch for lights all worked correctly.) The part numbers are the exact ones I used to order the older switch assembly in order to have the lights off position which I wanted.

    In addition to the above the switch was much narrower on the handlebar that meant that the 525 clutch could be correctly positioned, impossible with the 950 Adventure switch that came on the 525. Also, this CEV switch could be positioned anywhere and locked down and didn't rotate on the bar. The Adventure switch had a plastic pin. If you filed it off the switch assembly rotated all over the place.

    Stu
    #43
  4. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,687
    Location:
    Nelson, New Zealand
    Ah, gotcha, cheers. You're talking about the typical EXC-series switch gear... very different kettle of fish to that on the Adventure. I can see all the bits you've mentioned in the Wiring Harness page for the 2003 200 EXC EU+AUS. Sometimes it's nice having a bike/books from each model series. I think between us we've covered all bases! :lol3:clap Just for clarity...

    EXC configuration: item #10 is the headlight, horn, kill switch (LHS switch block); #29 is the flasher switch, 30-31-32-33 necessary to bolt them together.
    [​IMG]

    Adventure configuration: item #42 is the kill, headlight and starter switch (RHS switch block)
    [​IMG]
    #44
  5. DUKE II

    DUKE II Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Oddometer:
    12
    What about this KTM switch assembly. Physically, looks the same as my Duke II, except for the headlight switch where a cover is located on mine, and no symbols. I would presume the connectors on the harness end would be the same???, or you could swap connector housings???

    http://www.ktmtwins.com/950adventure/60011074000.html
    #45
  6. SFmax

    SFmax Guest

    I've got an 03 that I've run into this exact situation a couple of times. No way to stop the headlights from sucking juice from the system when you kick it over so there isn't enough for the spark. I found this all out the hard way by running into this problem a few times.

    There is a place for a switch on the right side handlebar switch cluster on the US models but its just a cover. I know someone must have made some kind of mod for this.
    #46
  7. lvdukerider

    lvdukerider Las Vegas Nevada

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Oddometer:
    525
    I noticed when working on the ignition lock switch on my 00 Duke II that the electronic portion of the ignition switch once seperated from the mechanical lock portion, via two small phillips screws, still has the detent position for start/run with lights off, just like the european model. Its just blanked off on the lock itself. I tried to get the euro version lock cylinder but my dealer said its not avalible through KTM N/A. Proably easier to just wire in a toggle switch to kill the lights like I have done to some of my previous bikes.
    #47
  8. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Oddometer:
    5,298
    Location:
    Traveler
    A simple way to rig the headlight for an on/off function is to find the ground wire for the low beam and put a simple toggle switch(cheap) on the dash to break the ground path wire. Now you can switch the low beam headlight off for day running but the parking bulb and tail light will still burn. The parking light is dim as it is a 2 watt bulb.

    When I pulled my parking bulb out there was a 10 watt bulb in there. Not sure if it came that way from the factory or the PO was in there and changed it. Anyway I switched back to a 2 watt bulb. It is nice to have the parking light without the headlight for setting up camp after dark or if you have to leave the bike on the road. When I run my electric vest and heated grips, I switch to low beam and hit the ground switch. This saves 55 watts for the other accessories.

    One problem with this system you still have a 20 watt tail light burning. It could be killed the same way with a switch in the ground but I never bothered. Maybe I gotta look at that but in a bad situation it is easy enough to pull the bulb.

    Currently I am installing one of these voltage monitors. When i get it hooked up I will post a picture.

    I chose item 1050 not item 1053. I works just like the dual light model but a single LED.

    http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp

    bill.
    #48
  9. BajaDave

    BajaDave Crazy Bastard

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    271
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula, Washington
    The european version of the ignition lock (part #584.11.066.000) allows for ignition without the headlight on. That part includes both halves of the ignition switch... the mechanical lock and the electrical switch below it.

    I ran into the problem with the KTM policy of not shipping to KTM North America certain parts designed only for other countries when I wanted to order the dual ignition curve CDI box for low octane fuel for my 2001 Adventure, as I needed it for the bad fuel in Mexico. NO, NO, NO was the answer-- KTM North America can not get it from Austria. So I called across the pond to a KTM dealer, told him my situation, and they happily shipped one to me. I'm glad I went to the trouble, because I needed it the first time I took it down there. Flip the switch, and Presto! No more ping when ya wail on it on a hot day in the mountains or deserts of Baja.

    Speaking of which: Just last week while riding down there, I was running at night with AUX lights and grip heaters going, at RPMs low enough to discharge the battery. I shut it down where I thought there was a nice downhill section I could bump start it on, just in case. Well, when I hit the button, it cranked twice and quit. That's where I learned, after a long walk to discover that the downhill didn't exist, followed by much kicking and then contemplation, that unplugging the headlight allowed the engine to fire up with what little power was generated by kicking it. I was anxiously reading through this post to get to the end and chime in with the good news, when I got to Luke's post and realized I'd been scooped! Good onya Luke!

    So how's about we get one of our compadres from across the pond to help us out with a group order??
    #49
  10. drrags

    drrags Dorkus Malorkus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,821
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    I'll go in on a group order, and I also want to hear more about your dual curve CDI!
    #50
  11. BajaDave

    BajaDave Crazy Bastard

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    271
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula, Washington
    They have two leads coming off of the CDI that are connected to enable an ignition curve that allows you to run very low octane fuel without damage (but fuel mileage is reduced). The 2003 and up 640 Adventures have them factory installed now. Prior to that, you had to order one optionally from KTM, part # 584.39.031.300.

    I wired mine to a switch on the instrument panel. Now when I'm running Magna (green) or worse, I can just flip the switch.
    #51
  12. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Oddometer:
    800
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL near Alligator Alley
    +1 on the group order
    #52
  13. Stu

    Stu Buffo Maximus

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Eastern YahooLand
    Colin,

    This is the old style LC4 switch. I have a picture of it on my '07 525 EXC at:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201026&page=10

    along with some other stuff I did to the 525. It is what is shown in your parts blowup. The Euros even use this switch on the 2-stroke EXCs that run around on the streets, or at least that is what I saw on them.

    Stu
    #53
  14. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,687
    Location:
    Nelson, New Zealand
    Yep, that's what my 200 uses. AFAIK it has been used on all the EXCs for ages, and still is.

    Ya gotta remember that pretty much all enduro/cross-country bikes are road legal in this part of the world, following the Euro system, even if most owners never register the bike and chuck all the road gear in the bin. 'Plating' a dirt bike, as you chaps over in Britain's Most Successful Colony call it, is only necessary for the bigger kids bikes (for short-legged adults) or motocross bikes. Enduro bikes come like that out of the box.

    EXC headlight switch:
    [​IMG]
    #54
  15. Stu

    Stu Buffo Maximus

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Eastern YahooLand
    Our success is in building intractable, pernicious pecksniff bureaucracies that love to regulate us for what is good for us. This allows them to build even more powerful organizations (more people and computers) to regulate us even more tightly. It is as if you took the worst of the English and German administrative practices and rolled them into one ugly system. We are so lucky.

    BTW, the CEV switch is ultra durable. It has been used on race bikes for years and gives almost zero trouble. You can, I discovered, tear one up with a well placed patella cup shot on a rocker switch.

    Stu
    #55
  16. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,263
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    EH? :ear :wink:

    Odyssey PC310? Call this fella:
    http://www.kodiakinc.com/batteries.html
    super nice, helpful, and pretty local - he used to sell the PC310 (he delivered one to my house after a service call :D) and pretty damn cheap. maybe you could pick one up?

    I agree with KTMatt, that lead-acid batteries HATE being run down - if they do they will weaken and die quickly.

    Now, I have to say this:

    Luke's an Idjit! :clap

    I think Magli is right - this is an Index thread.
    #56
  17. fasteddy

    fasteddy Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    334
    Location:
    Southern Ontario, Canada ( Niagara Peninsula )
    The 640 Adventure Euro light switch part # is 60011074000, I've ordered it through KTM Canada, I'll keep you informed as to it's availability.


    Ed...
    #57
  18. 640rider

    640rider Hard to ride in Baghdad

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    13
    as i have just come across this thread i am now aware that my bike will not start with out the battery. i have a 2003 adventure. i have never let the battery go dead because it cuts the life of a battery in half when you let it go dead. i have had it on a battery tender since the day i bought it. great device for those of you who have't heard of it. it offers a pigtail plug that is always connected to the battery. you just plug it in when you are not riding. then tuck the plug away when riding. it keeps the battery at a full charge then turns on and off, on it's own, as needed.
    all sounds about right though since a lot of electric start bikes require a full charge to run properly. had a brand new Ninja 900 one time. the battery went low and would not start. jumped it and got it going then it was running bad as the batt was still low. figured heck, i'll just ride it to charge it, bad idea. it spit and sputtered. as i tried to take off and seemed to require much more gas and clutch than it should have. then BAM it kicked in all at once and caused the bike to take off like a bullet. needless to say i did not end up going with it. i ended up on my back and the bike about 60 feet away sliding on its side. i'll never let another battery go bad again.
    through all this, it is a little disopointing that the bike can not be kick started on a bad battery but, my assumtion is that the kicker will still prove handy if the starter crapps out.
    #58
  19. BajaDave

    BajaDave Crazy Bastard

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    271
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula, Washington
    Hey 640rider, I think you missed the good news contained within this thread, I know it's kind of buried, but that is that you CAN INDEED start your bike with a dead battery. However, you will need to disconnect the headlight to do so. After it's started, you can then hook the headlight back up. You can reach the plug/connector for the low beam under the fairing without removing it. A switch that allows to easily turn it off while the ignition is on is what we're working on now.
    #59
  20. dirtydeeds

    dirtydeeds I'm alive.

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,791
    Location:
    Calgary, AB, Can
    This happened to me with my 2003 only 2 weeks ago. (I wired my hand warmers to my battery instead of my ignition and left it on over night.) The dash would not light up -no power anywhere. I kicked it for 10 min, until I noticed I had also flicked the "run" switch to off. Feeling like an ass, I kicked it a couple more times and it started. (I know there was no more juice in the battery, the clock was reset to 12:00. )

    So, either the 2003 model will start with a dead battery or a bunch of kicks with the Kill switch "off" will charge the ignition enough for a spark. What do you think?
    #60