Kick-starting LC4 with dead battery?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by magli, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    What GodSilla said.

    It's part of the laws that say bikes must have turn signals, a horn, sidestand interlocks, etc. The Federal Saftey sticker that goes on the bike next to the emissions sticker is certifying that the bike meets all these fed standards. There are a lot of them, but there are a lot less for bikes than there are for cars.

    The federal law only covers the equipment. It's up to the states to decide if you have to use it. OR requires bikes to have their headlights on at all times, IIRC CA doesn't.
  2. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    switch from a 95 RXC-e, (obviously sold in the States). It has the on/off/park switch. Sneaky KTM disabled it by installing it with one extra long screw that locks it in the on position. A clever person can defeat this trick by simply installing it with a normal length screw. The long screw is shown in my fingers and is a conspicuous zinc finish whilst the normal ones are black oxide finish. but don't tell the feds.:lol3

    [​IMG]
  3. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

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    Re: lights on. NZ is about to get this crap, buried in the back of a block of legislation banning hand-held cellphone use. ie where it is little-known and little-publicised. They are not mandating switchless lights, but rather that it is law that the rider must have them on.

    Back in Australia (hi Godsilla) in the early nineties, ADR 19.01 (Australian Design Rule "Lights On") was pushed through by a federal minister who allegedly had a bee in his bonnet about it due to a personal grievance. Some of the biggest protests ever staged in Australia were over this legislation, such that some of the states suggested they wouldn't implement the federal guideline. In the end, they capitulated and it was law for a while, since repealed.

    At the time I followed the issue closely, read LOTS of material on the issue. The state of Victoria commissioned their own comprehensive study - I bought a copy of it, it makes very interesting reading about the whole issue of "being seen", what works, what doesn't, and when "being safe" is different to "being seen". It simply backed up virtually every other study done on the issue: it don't work, and it isn't worth it. They stated that the best way forward was to spend money on an education campaign to encourage riders to turn their lights on when the situation demanded it.
  4. Coho911

    Coho911 Long timer

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  5. mazuko

    mazuko mazuko

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    Install heated hand grips, and then switch to low instead of off when you arrive at work...

    Went out to run some errands at lunch......Nuthin, tried kicking, bumping more kicking...smacked my shin on the footpeg for good measure....nuthin

    Luckily I know a fella with a battery charger nearby...

    I need to figure out how to link the grip heaters to the ignition, I have a bad feeling this will happen again.
  6. Anywhereness

    Anywhereness Adventurer

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    Sorry to dig up and old thread, but I wanted to add a bit of information here from a recent experience with my 2001 640E.

    So I woke up and tried to start the bike, but the battery was dead. No magic button, no headlights, no neutral light even. The heated grips switch was left on "high" from the night before and sat overnight and through the morning. :cry

    Deciding to try and take this as a learning experience, I did all that was immediately available to try and start the bike with a completely dead battery and no outside help. Note not just weak battery, or "my headlights are dim" dead, but completely drained. I multimeter would have read 0 output.

    1. Unplugged the headlight (easy on the E) and tried to kick start the bike (repeatedly), no love.
    2. Pushed the bike down the best incline I could find to try and bump start it a few times, no love.
    3. Went back to kick starting, again and and again and again and again and... no love.
    4. Gave up and put the bike on a charger for a few hours, started right up.


    A few days later, I made the same dumb mistake and left the heated grips on (man I need a relay!) while eating breakfast at a diner. The battery was dead enough where the magic button wouldn't work but the headlights and neutral switch were dim and dying.

    1. Went to kick start the bike a few times, no love.
    2. Reached down and unplugged the headlight then gave it a good kick, :raabia right on the first kick.


    The Conclusion:
    I don't think that this bike will start with a completely drained battery, it needs SOME sort of juice to get the ignition system motivated. The trick to know now is how could one add juice to a dead battery out in the middle of noplace with no reliable outside help?

    Will the charge system work if the bike is rolling downhill in the ON position but in neutral?

    Can I put it into 5th gear with the spark plug out and spin the rear wheel some? (or all afternoon?) :gdog

    Would anyone be willing to sacrifice their battery in the name of science? :evil
  7. StevenD

    StevenD Hmmmm, dirt!

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    your drained battery will take many amps. I bet if you disconnected the battery all together with the head light, and turned the heater off you would have kicked the bike succesfully as well.

    Try it: just uplug the battery tonight and kick it over!
  8. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    This worked for me. I made the mistake of buying a cheap chain-store battery. After a couple of rides the bike was kick-start only, then it wouldn't start at all unless I disconnected the battery.




    In answer to EoEs questions, no it won't charge if you roll the bike in neutral, yes it will if you spin the motor. But just use the decomp lever, no need to pull the spark plug. Bonus: you won't suck dust into your motor.
  9. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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  10. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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  11. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    Ok, so if I wanted to run my Duke 2 Battery-less, what do I do with the pos and neg cables, and what's the start-up procedure?


    still reading through this thread
  12. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    Disconnect the battery cables from the battery; secure and insulate them so they don't bump things or short to each other. Turn the headlight off when you want to start the bike. Everything else should be as normal.
  13. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

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    So... I was out marshalling for our 6 hour cross-country race last Sunday. Turned the key on after a stop, and got nada. No neutral light, no instruments at all :cry. After 7.5 years, the battery has finally carked it! The bike will start with a flat battery, but it takes a bit better kick than normal. About halfway down the instruments come on, and if you're good she'll fire up. Mostly when the bike is warm, it will start first kick, but on Sunday it had to be exactly right or it wouldn't.

    And the problem with marshalling is that unlike racing, it is stop-start-stop-start-stop-start all day long. :puke1 My left leg actually got tired from all the kick starts, first time that's happened! :lol3 I did manage to bump-start it a few times, too.

    Edit: P.S. I've lost the clock, so I'll have to find the thread on how to enable that again.
  14. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    Get a new battery ya cheap bastage Colin! :D

    I lost my clock too; maybe this will help us (from da index):
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280027
  15. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    If you have lost the clock function that usually means a fuse has blown... If the fuse has blown that usually indicates a short somewhere... Check your power plug wires as I believe it uses the same fuse as the clock... If you haven't had your key switch apart yet, it wouldn't be a bad idea to inspect it as well for broken contacts...
  16. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Bump for Luke.
    bill
  17. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Epoch,
    See the above post.
    The easy way to shut off the headlight is to put an on/off switch n the low beam ground wire and install it on the dash, now you can turn the low beam off any time.
    Nice when running off road.
    bill


  18. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

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    :D I was expecting to need to replace the battery once the new starter clutch parts were fitted. The only reason the battery survived this long is that it hasn't been used to start the bike. Could've picked a better day to die, though - ain't that always the way! :evil

    Cheers, gunner. The clock has reappeared as 0:00 at some stage, and when I got home the battery charger worked through the dash power outlet - IIRC you are right about the shared the fuse - but I will check it all out. I did re-solder the key switch a few weeks ago.

    Edit: I should add, my bike has a headlight switch, so the lights spent the rest of the day off.
  19. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    Your clock will reappear and can be reset but as soon as you switch the key off and on it will go back to 00:00 as the fuse powers the memory...
  20. warewolf

    warewolf Tyre critic

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    It's not a 100% failed fuse then, because this morning it was showing 17:29. Definitely needs investigation.

    Today I left the bike idling for a while and then stalled it. I couldn't start it again, didn't get any instruments when kicked so probably the idling sucked the life out of the battery. Left the bike alone for 3-5 mins, then when I turned the key on I got instruments and it kicked into life easily.