KTM 690 Tuning Survey

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by jimboe, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. jimboe

    jimboe n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
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    9
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    Southern Oregon
    I’ve had a half-dozen XTs and XRs and am hoping to move up to a KTM 690R soon. I’ve been reading the 690 threads to learn what to expect. It’s clear there are some issues with the ECU to provide top quality throttle response, performance and fuel mileage, but the info is often unspecific and spread out over hundreds of forum pages so it’s hard to come to solid conclusions.

    I thought a 690 modification and tuning survey would be a good way to gather valuable info and experience from those of you who have paid the price of dialing your bikes in, and put that intel in a focused thread.

    All of my 40 years of riding have been on bikes with carburetors and I’ve learned that if I change the flow of intake air or exhaust gases, I have to re-adjust the fuel-air mixture and sometimes the timing. The best results came from careful, methodical trial & error changes.

    Modern high compression, fuel injected, computer-managed engines like the LC4 have to meet demanding emission and noise standards so it is no surprise there are occasional flat spots, jerks, stumbles, surges, stalls and backfires, especially if the intake and exhaust is modified to cause leaner fuel-air mixtures.

    Seems like some ADV riders are able to resolve those hiccups while many others struggle with them. In 1977, I paid $1,300 out the door for my 1<sup>st</sup> Yam XT500. Today, I&#8217;m thinking that if I have to pay $10,000 for an enduro, the throttle response should be spot-on and the performance should be mind-blowing, without having to spend another $3,000 like the staff at Motorcycle USA.com did on their 2009 Duke 690 project bike:

    http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/901/1...le/2009-KTM-Duke-690-Project-Bike-Part-1.aspx

    I was amazed to read that after adding a foam filter and $2,400 Ackrapovic exhaust it took more than 120 dyno runs to tune the electronics and realize a total gain of 2 hp? WTF!? And they didn&#8217;t mention the torque curve, which leads me to believe it wasn&#8217;t improved, or may have ended up worse than stock.

    It would be great if some professional tuners (i.e. KTM techs, engineers, Kevin Camerons, etc.) chime in with some jewels of wisdom, experience, research and development. I'd also appreciate feedback from readers to help fine-tune the tuning survey.

    Below is a list of survey questions to help readers figure out what tuning changes are needed to get the best throttle response, performance and fuel mileage for various intake, exhaust and engine modifications. Your R&D efforts will make the lives of new 690 owners a lot easier and more affordable. Thanks for your help.

    Jim


    1. What tuning experience did you have when you got your 690 (novice, a fair amount on my own bikes, pro tuner, Kevin Cameron asks me for advice)?

    2. Which model 690 do you have (Enduro, R, SMC, Duke, etc)?

    3. What year is it?

    4. Did you have any throttle response or performance problems when the bike was STOCK?

    5. What fuel mileage did you get with the STOCK intake and exhaust?

    6. What INTAKE changes have you made (filter, airbox) and did they cause any throttle response or performance problems?

    7. What EXHAUST changes have you made (header, silencer or both; which brand and model pipe, and what alterations to it) and did they cause any throttle or performance problems?

    8. What OTHER engine changes have you made (cam, piston, disabled emissions, turbo, etc) and how did they affect the throttle response and performance?

    9. What tuning steps gave the best results for the changes you made (stock maps, downloaded maps, advanced ECU tuning, total ECU tuning, aftermarket ECU, disabled emissions stuff, going back to stock intake or exhaust, switching to a carburetor, etc)?

    10. What improved most from your tuning (throttle response, performance, mileage)?

    11. How did you verify improvements in performance (sounded faster, felt faster, wheelies in higher gear, faster compared to another bike, faster at drag strip, more power on dyno)?

    12. What mileage do you get after the mods and tuning?

    13. How satisfied are you with the results of your tuning (sold the bike, still working on it, living with it being so-so, pretty darn good, it's perfect)?

    14. If you had to start over, would you do things differently?[FONT=&quot]

    Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom to help us mechanically-challenged achieve the full potential of the Austrian Tornado.
    [/FONT]
    #1
  2. MORT666

    MORT666 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
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    214
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    U.K
    Get a KTM 300 exc 2smoke.:1drink
    #2
  3. davidb21

    davidb21 Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Oddometer:
    90
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Hey Jim, i don't own a 690 but my friend has done some mods to his, i'll try to fill it out by memory right now and edit and improve my answers when i talk to him tomorrow.



    2. Which model 690 do you have (Enduro, R, SMC, Duke, etc)? 690 enduro r

    3. What year is it? 2012

    4. Did you have any throttle response or performance problems when the bike was STOCK? No, just wanted a little more

    5. What fuel mileage did you get with the STOCK intake and exhaust?

    6. What INTAKE changes have you made (filter, airbox) and did they cause any throttle response or performance problems? Im pretty sure he did the rally raid conversion, will check tomorrow

    7. What EXHAUST changes have you made (header, silencer or both; which brand and model pipe, and what alterations to it) and did they cause any throttle or performance problems? FmF Q4 slip-on no alterations

    8. What OTHER engine changes have you made (cam, piston, turbo, nitro-methane, etc) and how did they affect the throttle response and performance? None

    9. What tuning steps gave the best results for the changes you made (stock maps, downloaded maps, advanced ECU tuning, total ECU tuning, aftermarket ECU, going back to stock intake or exhaust, switching to a carburetor, etc)? Power commander, will check on tuning tomorrow

    10. What improved most from your tuning (throttle response, performance, mileage)? Throttle response most, some performance gain, most likely hurt milage but will check tomorrow

    11. How did you verify improvements in performance (sounded faster, felt faster, wheelies in higher gear, faster compared to another bike, faster at drag strip, more power on dyno)? Felt faster, slight increase in Hp at dyno and a pretty drastic change in the power curve for the better

    12. What mileage do you get after the mods and tuning?

    13. How satisfied are you with the results of your tuning (sold the bike, still working on it, living with it being so-so, pretty darn good, it's perfect)? He's happy with the results but has been thinking of making a few changes

    14. If you had to start over, would you do things differently? Will ask tomorrow but i know he wanted something other than the power commander, and ive heard him mention getting a header for the FmF



    He did all the mods at the same time so i cant say what he noticed between the individual mods.

    -David
    #3
  4. kateean2

    kateean2 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Oddometer:
    21
    thanks dude. I have Everrit now
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #4
  5. milzispete

    milzispete who did what where?

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    778
    Location:
    Muscat, Oman
    Im glad you posted this Jimboe. I have just purchased a used 2009 690 enduro R and the fueling is god aweful. I have just started trawling through the forums to see what others have had to do. The info is all over the palce, often contradictory and generally a change everything approach without ever finding a route cause.

    That's the price of trying to get info from a forum of course. In everyones' defense KTM seem to be no better at being able to fix the problem.

    It would be nice to see a list of symptoms a fix would resolve.

    What symptoms are cured when chaning out a fuel pump for example.
    Fuel injetor cleaning
    What diagnostics can be done using tune ECU?
    Why would an aftermarket ECU be better than stock?

    If there was some sort of guidline it may help us fault find rather than throwing bits at the bike.
    I wish us all the best of luck with this thread :ear:ear
    #5
  6. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,216
    Location:
    India Wharf
    I have a 2012 690R Enduro (USA model). I have about 3600 miles on it, of which all but maybe 500 miles were street. Those 500 dirt miles consisted of three dual sport rides in modest terrain. Only a few rock gardens, but plenty of mud. My motor/exhaust system is totally stock as is my gearing. I set the map to soft (#1) for city and my dual sport rides. I think my fueling is perfect.

    - No flat spots or stumbles
    - Idles solidly smooth with no wondering revs. Steady at 1700rpm.
    - Highway fuel mileage at 65mph sea level is mid-low 50mpg.
    - No sudden death or stalling. Note: When I changed the map it stalled, but I did the throttle 'reset' and no more stalling the last 2k miles.
    - Fires up instantly every time
    - Throttle is jerky until motor is up to operating temp, then much better. The throttle is light, though, so plonking on rock gardens require a nice touch with your clutch to avoid surges from bumps.

    My old KTM 950 was modded from new with Akro's, cannister removal, airbox mods, adjusted needles and such. It never ever ran really well. It had mild surging and sudden death for 60,000 miles. Our racing motorcycles have full kit parts and we have them mapped perfectly for the type of fuel we use. But there is a lot of knowledge surrounding that type of tuning. It seems the KTM 690's have little, so I opted to keep mine stock, including the exhaust system. So far the reward has been perfect fueling. :deal

    The bike is plenty fast even in map 1. It accelerates as hard as my 950 or Ducati 900 up to about 100mph. It's faster than my old 750 Monster, but it should be since it makes the same power with 100lbs less weight. I think the 690R could get into the elevens in a quarter mile with a decent launch.
    #6
  7. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,292
    Location:
    Louisiana, Baton Rouge
    I agree with everything Pantah said. Same bike here, the '12 Enduro, I think I have 2,300 miles on mine and it runs like scalded ape.

    I'm a fuel injection dumb arse, but the fuelling seems fine to me.

    The only thing I've done engine wise is replace the stock inferno silencer with a Wings can, removed all of the smog crap, and replace the stock air filter with the twin-pod UNI.

    It doesn't stall, delivers 58 mpg's no matter how I behave, lofts the front at the flick of a wrist in the first three or four gears, and I see no reason to do a remap.

    Dirty
    #7
  8. MrHix

    MrHix Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    384
    Location:
    MO
    What Pantah said. My '12 runs great, gets almost 70 mpg on the road. Wings exhaust with small tip.

    Cheers,

    MrHix
    #8
  9. Fishfund

    Fishfund Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    569
    Location:
    Lansing, MI

    Is this almost 70 mpg claim true? Is that happening regularly for you? How are you driving it to get that number? My ktm 690 never saw anything close to that granted, mine was always fully loaded with gear, fairing, and I had a aftermarket exhaust and a unipod air filter.
    #9
  10. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    8,312
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    I read in one of the forums that a brand new 2013 map was just released by KTM.

    Anyone try it out yet?
    #10
  11. jimboe

    jimboe n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Oddometer:
    9
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Now we're talking! Thanks for the replies, guys. With enough of them we should see trends like Pantah's that will serve as baselines, as well as trends of which tuning steps work best for brand X muffler, brand Y air filter, and other common hot-rodding changes.

    The results may also illuminate some myths about changing things like emissions equipment and expose unjustified hype about certain expensive aftermarket "performance" parts.

    But the best result of this thread would be that our bikes all run exactly how we want them to.

    Thanks again,
    Jim
    #11
  12. MrHix

    MrHix Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    384
    Location:
    MO
    I have the KTM windscreen, riding about 55 mph, no extra gear, 155 lb rider. I'm sure it will vary because I have a hard time filling the tank up with the vapor recycling nozzles. I imagine it will work out somewhere in the mid to upper 60s. Much better than my 250 KTM which got 35 mpg.

    Cheers,

    MrHix
    #12
  13. Dalmatino

    Dalmatino Been here awhile

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    Prison Planet Earth
    Awesame idea Jim. :clap

    I've just been shufling through the forums myself trying to determin exactly where things stand on this issue with the fuelling on the 690. From what I've put together from the scattered info (and reading between the lines) has made me comforetable in making my decision to buy a new one in couple of weeks.It seems the newer bikes hardly have any issues at all.
    Best and most info in regards to performance tuning I got from few Super Moto forums. SM guys seem to be more into hp mods and gains and seem to have tried pretty much everything on thair SM's.

    If one is going to do exhaust mods and remaping (I can say from years of my own experiance) things will never work 100% unless you do a proper custom Dyno map by an experianced reputable Dyno tuner. So unless you're willing to go all the way and have ability/access to Dyno than I wouldnt mess with it, but if you do, the gains can be fenominal in throtle responce, torque and hp gains and throtle can feel like it's conected to the rear wheel.

    I plan on a complete and detailed tune. This will include an exhaust system (brand undetermaned yet), PCVusb, airbox/air filter mods, removal of all unecessary AP stuff and a full proper dyno tune. Unfortunately I wont be able to do this till around April when I get back from work but I will post all my progress once I do.


    Centralizing this info will help everyone..thanks for the thaught.
    #13
  14. Dalmatino

    Dalmatino Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
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    Location:
    Prison Planet Earth
    Pantah, thanks for your input on other threads which helped in swaying to the KTM690.

    Will be locking one in 1st week of January. Brand new 2013. Now the spending spree starts....

    Buying this damn bike is the cheap part :lol3
    #14
  15. Bill the Bong

    Bill the Bong Supern00ba

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,196
    Location:
    Kalahari South Africa
    2011 R. 3000' elevation desert.

    Uni filter with Wings, db killer fitted. Had severe stalling issues from new. Ran super hot. Fitted a booster plug (or something similar, cant remember the brand). Cured the stalling, remained snatchy. Ran a touch cooler.

    Fitted a Vortex ignition/fuel module. Super good fueling, but much heavier on fuel (30 km less per tank). I'm running 25% softer intial throttle when commuting, 10% intial softer when off-road. Doesn't get hot. The feeling of total control is priceless.
    #15
  16. el capitan

    el capitan Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
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    107
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    In Europe there are two sources to cure the hickup and flat spots below 4500 rpm: One from the German company ABP Racing (http://www.abp-racing.de/ktm-690-kits/) for about 400 $, but you have to send them both ECUs. The second is from an Austrian and can only be ordered via the forum http://www.ktmforum.eu/forum3/wbb/690-supermoto-690-smc-690-enduro-690-duke/690-lc4-tuning/48222-upgrade-tuningk%C3%BCche-smc-r/?82b03a1eu They add a K&N RU-1750 air filter, remove the airbox and replace it with an alloy-sheet just blocking the engineĀ“s hot air from the intake. And usually they run open pipes (Remus and Akra preferred). Fuel-metering is made by the "Kastl" (box) that overrules the stock ECU.

    Unfortunately both sources are German speaking, but in the second link you can find lots of dyno-curves speaking for themselves. My younger brother equipped his SMC 690 with a "Kastl" 1,5 years ago. Now a friend has the new SMC 690 R all stock (with 36 ccm more), but my brotherĀ“s bike has more muscles AND the better manners. Nobrainer in my opinion.
    #16
  17. slidefighter

    slidefighter Gather it up, keep on...

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Oddometer:
    520
    Location:
    South Carolina Low Country
    MrHix: You said I believe, that you have a 2012 690 with a Wings exhaust. I've read of guys installing those and NOT remapping. I want a Wings on mine primarily for weight and exhaust can temperature reduction reasons. I don't want to screw up my fueling which seems to be spot on. Can you tell me what you did to remap if anything and how it runs as a result of your swap to the Wings?

    Thanks!


    Lee...
    #17
  18. creedyflyr

    creedyflyr Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Oddometer:
    239
    Location:
    Port Stephens NSW Australia
    I installed a Wings can & RR foam Filter on My 2012 with no remap & it ran fine. No stalling or bad habbits. Then remapped to Akra Maps, still running fine with no issues whatsoever.
    Creedy.
    #18
  19. Honkey Cat

    Honkey Cat Tailights Fade!

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,338
    Location:
    SW Florida
    2010 690 enduro r
    2300 miles

    Canistorectomy
    Leo vince exhaust

    Vortex ecu
    Throttle is perfect and crisp
    No flameout issues at all
    40-50 mpg depending on what map im running
    My only complaint is im to short so selling to get a 350 exc
    #19
  20. slidefighter

    slidefighter Gather it up, keep on...

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Oddometer:
    520
    Location:
    South Carolina Low Country
    Creedy/HonkyCat: Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

    Creedy: I've done a bit of riding in your world, more down around Melbourne and the GOR and especially on Tazmania (some really great riding, IMO). Thanks for the help.


    Lee...
    #20