KTM 690e fuel pump (FI) issues

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by DirtJack, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    Just got back from several days of riding/camping in Terlingua Ranch and Big Bend Ranch State Park. Awesome weather (30's to 60's) and riding.

    The problem is that the bike stopped a few times and a couple of times failed to start after stopping for a short while (this happened once before while riding in the Gila National forest earlier this year but now the problem seems to be getting worse).

    When the problem occurs, you can tell that the bike will not start by turing the key to on. You can hear the fuel pump relay click but you do not hear the usual sound of the fuel pump spinning up to pressurize the fuel system. When this happens, no amount of cranking with the starter motor will start the bike; that just runs down the battery.

    So how do I get it going again? Just wait. Sometimes a minute or two, sometimes 10 to 30 minutes. Eventually, when you turn the ignition on, you will hear the relay and then the friendly fuel pump sound and the bike will instantly start.

    Whenever the bike does run, it runs as strong as ever. The problem is intermittent as the bike ran without any problems one day of this ride. The problem acts a bit like some sort of heat sensitivity, but it wasn't hot and the bike did not overheat. A couple of times the after-market 88 deg. C fan switch ran the radiator fan on slow gnarly hill climbs, but the fuel pump is in the tank cooled by the fuel.

    Anyone have any ideas before I pull the fuel pump and filter assembly?

    I've owned the bike since new and it now has about 11,000 miles on the clock.
    #1
  2. SKINNY

    SKINNY Been here awhile

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    There have been some problems with bad brushes on the pump...and bad wiring connections...either could cause intermittent problems...it's probably worth a look inside the tank...
    Mine has about 8-9k and has never missed a beat, but with your failure, I guess we should all be aware of a possible high mileage problem...
    #2
  3. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    Yes, of course, but the bike has always (after nothing but waiting) eventually started. I've read about the brushes falling apart, but that leads to a hard failure doesn't it?

    I agree that I probably have to go into the tank.
    #3
  4. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

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    Fuel pump brush problems usually just make the pump die and not run, and if they go erratic, it usually dies quickly, but anything is possible.
    What about the fuel pump relay?
    Maybe that is erratic.
    #4
  5. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    NJ, you may be right, but the relay makes the same sound whether or not the fuel pump starts to run.
    #5
  6. empedrado

    empedrado Been here awhile

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    I recently had something similar happen. My 690E had a little over 17,000 miles when it occured. Bike would run but ran really bad and at some point would not start for awhile. Ended up being some connections that were dust fouled. I removed all the connections around the throttle body and ones that were easily accessible. Blew them out and installed dielectic grease to the connections. Bike now seems to run better than before and it has been maybe 300 miles since the problem arose with no hint of problem.

    Worth a try. I had similar problems with dust causing problems on my 640Adv.
    #6
  7. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    I'll try that before going into the tank. Most of the recent rides have been in very dusty conditions preceded by very wet conditions and deep water crossings in the Spring.
    #7
  8. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

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    check the filter,it's a maint item anyway so needs to be done. If it acts up as the bike temp rises thats a sign the filter is clogged. Mine had the black stuff in it at 3k miles then again at 5500. The napa filter is like 10 bucks compared to75 for the oem, then you just need the small line clamps. Possibility it is ethanol related also as it seemed there was some water in my paper filter. I have been trying to run a fuel conditioner that deals with the phase separation, especially if the bike is to sit for a while.Although it does kind of sound like an electrical issue with your bike
    #8
  9. empedrado

    empedrado Been here awhile

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    I really should replace my filter with the miles I have racked up. Can you list the part number for the napa filter and the size of those clamps?
    #9
  10. Yamaha_Rider

    Yamaha_Rider Adventurer

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    Hi:

    I have a doubt

    What happens if the fuel pump dies in the middle of nowhere, without phone signal and without people in hundred miles away?

    Exists some "home made" repair on site to survive and return to civilization?

    Thanks!
    #10
  11. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    This question haunted me inside Big Bend Ranch State Park. We tried (but failed) to keep somewhat close to areas we could get a truck into. My bike always eventually re-started after doing nothing but just waiting. You could easily tell whether or not it would start by the fuel pump sound before pressing the starter button.

    You can carry a spare of each of the parts in the tank to replace in the field, but you have to drain the fuel out the bottom of the tank and would need some way to catch the gas cause you need that to get going again too.

    I don't know if I have solved the problem yet or not (haven't done a long enough ride), but I did go through all the connections to clean and grease as someone suggested, but I have not yet gone into the tank. Need some parts for that.
    #11
  12. Gros Buck

    Gros Buck Beef = Packed Vegetables

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    My third pump ...

    1500 km in between.

    Paul Jr oO 8 :eek1
    #12
  13. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    Not to threadjack, but what did you think of BBRSP? I went there alone earlier this month, and you are absolutely correct...not the kind of place you want a bad failure of any kind that you can't fix in the field. Almost no one goes there and getting a vehicle in to pick up your bike after a long walk on a few of those primitive roads might be challenging. I wasn't worried about fuel delivery on my carbed KLX300S, but a bad crash or other total failure on the bike had me thinking. I loved that place...amazingly remote and hardly a tourist to be found.:lol3
    #13
  14. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    At one point intime people used to travel all over the world without any cell phones...this was only about 15 years ago. So, the point is that you should always assume that you won't be able to use a cell phone and travel prepared. If you are going out in the middle of nowhere I would carry an extra pump and know how to change it. I have looked around a bit and found pumps from other vehicles that are about the same size and the correct pressure rating that could be used. My pump is still working ok but if/when it goes my plan is to convert to a different setup. I used to carry a spare pump on the 950 because I took that into all sort of remote places.

    I have not found an external pump yet but it would be nice to switch to one for ease of service and diagnostics. You could always remove the efi system and go to a carb setup with parts from the rally bike.

    Good luck, let us know what you find.
    #14
  15. dirtinblood

    dirtinblood Ontariariario

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    I've had trouble with my '08 and then again with my '09 690. it appears to be intermitent at first, has you chasing electrical faults, but ends up being a filter issue in the end. I replaced the whole pump/filter assembly in the '08 to solve the problem. The real issue was the filter though. It's tendancy to clog up easily led to unusual strain on the pump. My '09 started to show the same symptoms, so I started to use fuel injector cleaner on a regular basis (every 3 or 4 tanks). The symptom have not returned for the last 2000km. Keep the filter clean, and the pump will be fine.
    #15
  16. Velociraptor

    Velociraptor TrackBum

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    I am doing the same. I use Red Line Complete Fuel System Cleaner. Who knows if it works. My 690r has 6,000 miles and no issues but that is fairly low mileage. I have a complete fuel pump replacement assembly just in case.
    #16
  17. AustinJake

    AustinJake TE450-KLE-FXDWG

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    If you chase electrical and filter issues and those dont cure it (didnt for mine) I have one more take on this subject. My 2010 Husky was manufactured in Sep 2009. It was sold and put into service in July 2010. I bought it used in Nov 2010 with 22 miles on it.! The filters, both the pre-filter that keeps crud out of the pump and the fuel filter are brand new/spotless. The bike would run and sometimes quit. I have video of it idling in my garage and just flat running out of gas. Key off/key on, no pump prime whir. Wait awhile, it would whir, prime, and away I would go until, one time, going 70 mph, see a stoplight ahead, start throttling down, and stop at the light, boom, dies, no gas, no pump, push it away from the light, on a bike with less than 100 miles on it. Go riding, stop to take a pic, get back on, no fuel pump whir, no prime, no start, wait 20 minutes, away we go again.

    It is my theory (especially on my bike that sat for months and months with no riding) that varnish builds up in the small space in between the fuel pump wall and the fan vane. If the cooling gasoline is not kept flowing fast enough, the parts swell up slightly and the pump locks down, usually when the motor/pump is switched off. Since the pump is submerged, some amount of time will eventually shrink the pump parts and it will prime and pump.

    I actually improved my pump somewhat by removing it from the tank, submerging it in almost pure injector cleaner, and applying voltage to the pump and letting it pump injector cleaner for about 5 minutes, in a laid-down empty oil jug lined with a plastic bag. The bike did better than before, but the pump still locks down at times.

    My 2 cents.
    #17
  18. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    I should have mentioned that I have been doing the injector cleaner thing as well and it seems to help (reducing intermittent frequency). I ride my bike often enough I don't think it is a varnish build-up problem. I will replace the filter as soon as I get one and also check/clean the screen.
    #18
  19. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    I agree that this is a great place to ride, I'll be going back repeatedly. I also recommend staying in the bunkhouse and have the rangers cook you supper and breakfast. Also agree that this is not a place to ride alone. You can also camp if you prefer and still eat in the bunkhouse; they are priced separately.
    #19
  20. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    I still haven't gone inside the tank yet (been too busy with other stuff and riding my other bikes). However I did use the 690 last weekend on the Nueces Canyon ride (480 miles total in 2 days) and the bike ran flawlessly. The only thing I've done so far to fix the problem is to clean and grease the relevant electrical connections and use some injector cleaner in the tank. Of course, I don't believe the problem is fixed and I do plan to look at the fuel pump, screen and filter as soon as I receive the necessary clamps.
    #20