KTM EXC Stator Information (530/450)

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Subaru297, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    Hello everyone,

    I just bought a new 2011 KTM 530 EXC and am looking for information on its charging/electrical system. The manual states that the generator outputs 150W.

    From what I have found it appears that it has two circuits. One AC circuit to power lights and ignition and one DC circuit to charge the battery. Does anyone know what the proportion of the 150W output is DC and what is AC?

    I am looking to upgrade the stock stator and would like to know all the technical details about the stock system first and whatever upgraded stator I decide on.

    One option is the Trail Tech stator which converts the whole system to DC and is advertised as 100W. I have emailed their sales department and tech department to try and get more details about the output because 100W is less than 150W as far as I know:huh. But this is advertised an an upgrade and there are many reports of people using it successfully so I am sure it works. Can anyone give me any more details on this upgrade? Trail Tech mentioned that it gives you 100W of overhead to play with but won't tell me the absolute output. They also mention that 100W is at idle.

    The other option is one from www.electrosport.com
    The one listed on there website is an OE replacement but I emailed them and they mentioned a 250W stator that puts out all DC so I am not sure how or if the stock rectifier will handle it.

    I am turning the bike into an adventure bike and will be adding the radiator fan, better lights, heated grips, and probably a couple other minor draws as well as a larger battery. Hence the need for an upgraded stator.

    If anyone knows any details on the stock system or the other two options I would appreciate it. And hopefully others will be able to find this info as well. Also any input on how you have upgraded your bikes and what you can run (lights, heated grips, heated clothes, gps, etc......) would be great!

    Thanks
    #1
  2. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    #2
  3. Gehrcke

    Gehrcke Adventurer

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    Let us know what you think of it after some use. I've read reviews on the TT, but not that one. I'll be looking to upgrade here in a little bit I think.
    #3
  4. Weldit

    Weldit Been here awhile

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    the 150watt stock will be at 7000 rpm - probably only 50 watt at idle how much dc/ac -don't know
    the trail tech kit seems good value to me as they give you a regulator/rectifier and stator in the kit for around $200
    I was going to wind my own - did my xr650 - but for this $ its not worth the hassle. :evil
    #4
  5. NWBoarder

    NWBoarder Whitmeister

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    Subaru,

    Sounds like you've done your homework.
    I am not sure what the stock stator output is at idle, but the rewound stator is supposed to be 100W at idle, like you said.

    My objectives were similar to yours:
    • TrailTech X2 HID (you can not run HID off the stock AC output)
    • Heated grips
    • possibly a GPS, and a fan down the road.

    I have been told that the stock stator is sufficient to run this stuff (if you "float the ground"), but I wanted piece of mind.

    I sent my '08 530 EXC stator off to BajaDesigns to be rewound and "float the ground".

    From the BD site:
    "These stators come stock as unequal dual outputs from the factory.The weaker 20w output is designated specifically for charging the electric start battery.The other 100w output is designated specifically to power the stock lighting AC.These stators only get rewound for HID applications that require the stock battery to be configured into the lighting system.One of our regulator/rectifiers must be used with a rewound stator."
    http://www.bajadesigns.com/ProductDetail/126004_Stator-Rewind-Ktm-Exc-Mxc-Xc-4stroke



    So far so good.
    #5
  6. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    Thanks. I never checked Baja Designs. I always forget they do stators as well.

    I just ordered the Electrosport stator. $230 for the kit and they have some nice LED turn signals that I am going to try out too. I will be glad to have everything on a DC circuit. I want to use LED headlights which need DC I believe.

    I am surprised that KTM use such a small charging circuit stock. I guess it is primarily a dirt bike though and the people that use it as more than that are rare.

    Cheers
    #6
  7. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    Trail Tech finally got back to me with some answers!
    Here is their response to my questions.

    To start with your stock stator does not put out the claimed 150w. KTM rates their stators in AC power, right at the stator, and at peak RPM. In reality the stock stator produces 30watts of DC power for the charging system and about 50-55watts of AC power for the lighting circuit.
    Our stator kit is designed to produce the max amount of output at idle instead of peak RPM. Because of the way the stator is wound the output will not increase greatly with more RPMs like the stock stator. At idle our stator kit will create 100w of usable DC power. In the 4000-5000 RPM range you are looking at that output to only increase to 110w.
    Please let me know if this does not answer you questions.


    So if the Electrosport stator lives up to its 250W claim it looks to be the better option unless it is <100W at idle and only makes 250W around 5-7k rpm. I will check back with them and find out.

    Cheers
    #7
  8. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Except that it's an Electrosport which have a reputation for self-destructing eventually and the Trailtechs ones are known to be reliable... :cry

    Don't really have first hand experience but I have heard from plenty of unhappy buyers over the years.
    #8
  9. LKN4DRT

    LKN4DRT Mended

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    Search ktmtalk for more info. cut7 aka tom has the only stator I know of that puts out good power. The conversion requires you to convert to dc ignition. I use stock with floated ground.
    #9
  10. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    I asked Electrosport and they said that 250W is available in the driveable portion of the rpm and that is is 30-50W around idle but increases rapidly to 250W and levels out there.

    Hopefully the reliability reports you have seen are not true! If so I guess I can modify the stock stator and see how well that works.
    #10
  11. LKN4DRT

    LKN4DRT Mended

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    That three phase stator does not work. The exciter coil wont provide enough to run the ignition reliably. Even if you can get the engine to run it doesnt provide the power stated. Do the research, it was a big flop. You have 2 options, stock converted to dc or cut7's that costs around 1k$.
    if you want to learn abut dc conversion and how much work it is to get a few more watts out of a stock stator read this.

    http://www.spokanister.net/ktm_stator.htm
    #11
    adam_cat likes this.
  12. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the article. It is interesting and I have rewound a few brushless motors in the past which are pretty similar except for the opposite function.
    That article is about 6.5 years old though and refers to a different electrosport part #. The ESG145 listed in that article is no longer a high output stator. It is just an OE replacement. The high output model is ESK145 and appears to come with a pretty substantial regulator to handle the extra power.
    Anyway the electrosport stator is on its way here and I will be able to find out first hand if it lasts. I do appreciate the feedback though.

    Maybe I will pack the stock stator and regulator for the first couple trips just incase! I will add a voltmeter to keep an eye on things so I will know if the battery is not being charged well and if I am overloading it.

    Cheers
    #12
  13. James Adams

    James Adams un bad hombre

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    Any updates on this?
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  14. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    I bought the Electrosport stator and it has arrived but I have not installed it yet. Should get installed soon though. But it will take a few weeks of testing before I can form an opinion on it.
    Still waiting on a volt meter too and I need to get some heated grips.

    Cheers
    #14
  15. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    I have the stator installed now but I am having difficulties with the DC conversion. Here are a few photos to start.

    [​IMG]
    Stator and Regulator/Rectifier


    [​IMG]
    Pulling off cover.


    [​IMG]
    New stator on left, stock one on right.


    [​IMG]
    New stator installed. This part of the install is very easy.

    The next part is to install the new R/R against the subframe so the subframe acts as a heatsink.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    It fits under here without having to trim anything except the tab on the air filter side panel that inserts into the rear fender side panel. This part of the install is also easy and straight forward.

    The last part is converting the stock wiring harness from accepting the AC power source to a DC source. The instructions were a bit vague but I eventually figured out I needed to chop off the wiring from the stock regulator.
    [​IMG]

    Then with a few emails back and forth with Electrosport, (helpful and prompt service from them) I figured out the rest of the install.
    Basically you join the red and yellow wires on the pigtail, that was just cut off, to each other.
    Insulate the black and white wire. They are not connected back to anything. Plug this pigtail back into its matching plug on the stock harness.
    Then you still have two wires that were plugged into the old stator. These too are insulated and not used.

    The new stator is wired directly to the new R/R which is then connected directly to the battery.

    I did all this and when I connect my battery back up my headlight is on! The key is not in the ignition and it shouldn't be on. I recall reading something about this and that it may be normal with the DC conversion......Is this true?
    If so how do I fix it? And will there be any other drains on the battery while the bike is off?

    Thanks
    #15
  16. James Adams

    James Adams un bad hombre

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    You'll need to wire a headlight switch or a relay that turns the lights on only when the engine is running.
    #16
  17. Off Road Ryder

    Off Road Ryder Long timer

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    It is typ for the headlight to constantly have power with a basic DC conversion. Newer kits have a dc power delay built into the reg/rec that eliminates that.. You can add a switch or possibly rewire your key.switch.
    Use caution with that kit. Watch the Reg/rectifier wires for overheating and overcharge of the battery.. They make great power, but....:eek1
    #17
  18. Subaru297

    Subaru297 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the help. I will install a switch for now to test everything out and then use a relay later on when I get the dash installed and need power for heated grips and other things.

    Cheers
    #18
  19. olec

    olec Rookie

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    As LukasM says: They don't have good reputation. I know, because I've been through 5-6 of them. I know ALL about these stators and rectifiers, but I look at them as an item which is just "worn" over time. The problem is that it just breaks after some time. Sometimes after some months, sometimes after a couple of years. But there are no other options if you want lots of power on those non-EFI bikes. I used to do night-races, and then I need 2 x 35W HID's on my helmet in addition to one HID or this Extreme light from TT on the bike. Then some hated grips as the races where areoun freezing point. And at least, some charging left over for the battery. I have also emailed cut7 from ktmtalk.com, but no responces at all.

    So this is what I know that will make the most life our of those 3-phase stator from Electrosport:
    - Good contact netween RR and the frame, act as a heast sink -> is the key.
    - Stator in oil batch (whihc is true on the 4.strokes). ON the 2-strokes, it gets too hot, and they break.
    - All exessive power will go to ground, so use as much power as possible, and the RR will stay cooler.
    - Put some money away regularly so you can replace the parts when they break, because they will :-)

    If you can live with the ~100W the TT provides, it's MUCH more reliable. I've had no issues with them, but it's not enough power, so it's an issue.

    I hope you will get long life out of your 3-phase. Please report back over time how it goes.

    Don't get me wrong. Next time I'll be back in serious night racing, I'd buy this 3-phase straight away and just calculate it'll break after some time. But as long as they work, there are no other alternatives. (As long cut7 is not answering my emails)
    #19
  20. James Adams

    James Adams un bad hombre

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    I wonder...could you put a switch on one of the leads from the stator to cut the power down by 1/3? It might "dirty" the power a bit, but a good battery could help make up for that.
    #20