I have read almost every tread about these 2 bikes & still have problem deciding. I know that many of you have already answered simillar threads, but give it a reading - it's about different driving situations. My candidates for a used trail bike (no highway use at all) and all 2001-2006 models as current budget allows, are: - KTM 525 EXC (i REALY love that thing) - WR 450F - KTM 300 EXC (large cc 2t are good for trails...) The terrain that I am going to use them is: - tight woods & technical riding (south Europe forests) - a lot of rocky & muddy terrain - no sand or desert at all (we don't have them ) - some steep hills (romaniacs type) - this is a great terrain for the 300 EXC... - rally raid - this IS going to be a problem with the 300 EXC... I am a tall and strong guy, so seat height and small weight differences are not an issue. Thing is that yesterday I borrowed a friend's 525 and I just loved that motor & all of that power, once on the woods the grunt helped. But once you stop at a hill the pds (rear shock design with no leverage used) design or the motor just makes a hell of a difficult work to re-start going uphill and regain traction. I am sure for fast (rally-style) riding it is fantastic, but for tight European enduro riding it's to much work (or maybe it's just me - just rode it for 20-30 technical miles). Many friends are trying to convince me on the WR450 on the bases that it is a more "sensible" race-bike that all the 520/525/530 are. My daily ride is a R1200GS ADV, so there is NO need at all for a road-friendly thumper!