Lance Armstrong

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    USADA finally released their document on Lance. have not had a chance to read in detail. but here's the heart of the matter. from page 15 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/460432-10lede-usada-armstrong.html

    in other words ... NO hard evidence is needed to convict. sorry but testimony from proven liars and tainted witnesses don't count.

    think of the incredible pressure brought to bear on Lance's former teammates. most were given very favorable terms to allow them to retire. if there were any sanctions I've not seen any on current riders.

    unlike Lance, most riders don't have the financial means to defend themselves against someone with unlimited resources. Win or lose, threat of getting same treatment as Lance from USADA or District Attorney would automatically destroy their careers and/or end of careers.

    ANY testimony resulting from such threats are tainted!!!
    ----------------

    IV.
    DISCUSSION OF THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING USADA’S CHARGES
    A.
    Introduction
    1. Standard of Proof
    Article 3.1 of the Code provides that: ““[t]he standard of proof shall be whether the Anti-
    Doping Organization has established an anti-doping rule violation to the comfortable satisfaction
    of the hearing panel bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegation which is made.”” As noted
    in the comment to Article 3.1, this standard of proof is comparable to the standard which is
    applied in most countries to cases involving professional misconduct. Thus, for example, in
    proceedings in the United States to take away the license to practice of a doctor or lawyer, the
    applicable standard of proof is typically ““clear and convincing evidence.”” In this case, the
    evidence against Mr. Armstrong is overwhelming. In USADA’’s view, it establishes his doping
    beyond a reasonable doubt.
    2. Means of Proof: Non-Analytical Evidence and Laboratory Evidence
    The World Anti-Doping Code specifies that doping can be proved by ““any reliable
    means.””28 This case was initiated by USADA based on evidence other than a positive drug test.
    It is not necessary for there to have been a positive drug test in order for a rule violation to have

    28 Code, Art. 3.2.


    Page | 16

    been established and many cases reflect this principle.29 It could not be otherwise because at any
    given time there are many drugs and methods of doping on the prohibited list that are not
    detectable through laboratory testing.
  2. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    Well, shit, it's about time usada released something.

    With regards to the results of not accepting arbitration...
  3. Sutherngintelmen

    Sutherngintelmen around the bend

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  4. Shuffler

    Shuffler Hommes Grande

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  5. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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  6. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    The USADA was prepared to go to court vs. LA a couple of months ago. The documents needed in there submission to the UCI are not entirely the same. I.e. since LA didn't oppose that had to include the decision. Hence the time to thoroughly prepare a document.
  7. Powershouse

    Powershouse Flower Sniffer

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    Sad to see Hincapie get tarred with this as he retires.

    I've been looking at the USADA document. I wonder if "Motoman", the motorcycle mule who delivered the goods during the TdFs is an inmate?
  8. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    George Hincapie probably had the best reputation amongst fans and fellow cyclists of any US rider. Perhaps ever. I guess he is now a proven liar as he has admitted doping but prior that had a super reputation.


    What were the pressures on LA's teamates? I have heard any "do this or else" type of statements.

    The blinders some of you wear are hilarious. What in the world would be the motivation of the USADA to go after someone they know is innocent. How does LA being found out to be a liar help anyone?
  9. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    Why is it sad? These guys were junkies, they cheated, they cheated the guys they beat. They broke the law.

    What is sad about them being banned?

    One of the substances the festina team was carrying when it was busted in (I think 99) was the cure for hepatitis.

    When Joe Papp finally had to go to the hospital he had a blood clot in his ass the size of a softball (according to him).

    I have no sympathy. These guys were mostly from upper middle class backgrounds, with college educations...they can all go rot for all I care.

    me and Gorgeous George...

    [​IMG]
  10. cogitate

    cogitate What Marcellus Wallace Looks Like

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    and to think, I used to beat George regularly in races before he doped. :deal




    OK, he was 12 or so, I was 24 or 5, and his dad petitioned the district rep to allow George to race with the seniors after George would win the junior race.

    Just to get George another 60 miles of racing under his wheels. On a Sunday.:lol3
  11. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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  12. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    So, he was cheatin from the beginin?
  13. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    Without releasing anything to anyone or telling Armstrong the specific allegations or who was making them, iirc. So, as I said, about time they released something...
  14. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    The allegations were stated clearly to LA back in June. Obviously the allegations were made by the USADA as governed by their directive to defend clean athletes. And as you can see the attached document would not suffice as to be submitted to the UCI.
    http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0613/armstrongcharges.pdf
  15. Fe Man

    Fe Man I am Iron Moran!

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    What's done is done.
    He never failed the tests of the day!

    It's nothing but a fucking past tense witch hunt by a little man with a chip on his shoulder.
    Lance is still the Man! (and for what it's worth, I think he is a jerk but he is still the man!)

    As far as George; I have ridden with him and hate to see him tarnished as he is a great guy!
  16. rdcyclist

    rdcyclist Long timer

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    Failing a drug test is failing an IQ test...

    If you take the time to read the "Reasoned Decision", do a little research on the Science in Sport blog and some others, you Lance-o-philes will see the light. I didn't believe he doped until I'd done the due diligence on what was humanly possible and what is not. I've stepped away from The Dark Side. It feels better here...

    Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if everybody else is doing it or not, it's still cheating.
  17. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    SPECIFIC allegations. And who was making them- and no, not the usada, but those the usada was depending on.
  18. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    don't think any less of Hincapie for testifying. he probably was facing getting same treatment as Lance. which included possible jail time, losing all titles/winnings, etc, etc.

    look at how Hincapie was allowed to finish season, then retire gracefully without interference before anything came out. Now let's see if Hincapie will lose all titles/winnings back 8 years or more like Lance?

    normally ALL riders under sanctions are directed by USADA to UCI for immediate suspension. Have you seen that happen to ANY rider that testified against Lance?

    Still think no threats and/or deals made by USADA to get those testimonies?

    this reminds me of jailhouse snitches who testifies against someone who gets convicted for murder. then years later recants testimony and/or new DNA evidence exonerates convicted inmate on death row. this has happened over and over again....
  19. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    Yes, great job on the cheating.

    I don't understand where this chip on the shoulder comes from.
  20. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    USA Cycling says active riders from USADA case not yet suspended

    USA Cycling officials told VeloNews Wednesday morning that American professionals Christian Vande Velde, Dave Zabriskie, Tom Danielson and Levi Leipheimer — four active riders that testified in the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency investigation of Lance Armstrong and the U.S. Postal Service team — had not been suspended.

    Still think no deals were made?

    [​IMG]