Lance Armstrong

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. cogitate

    cogitate What Marcellus Wallace Looks Like

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    I hope not, but i fear the ego may drive him to do a Pantani. I really, really hope not:deal
  2. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    Grow up.
  3. OConnor

    OConnor Bad juju

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    Meh. Drugs may have enhanced his performance but the guy is still an unbelievable athlete and it's sad to get the impression that some of you are absolutely giddy about the whole ordeal.
  4. cogitate

    cogitate What Marcellus Wallace Looks Like

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    Trek, giro, honey stinger, radio shack have all severed ties with him.
  5. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I am not sure anyone is giddy about the “whole ordeal”. At least I don’t think anyone who is or was a fan of the sport likes what happened. I am however very pleased to see some sort of justice finally being done on behalf of all the cyclists that competed against LA who made less money, achieved fewer goals and, experienced less because their results diminished by someone who cheated to beat them when they chose not to. The fact that LA intimidated, bullied and, threatened those that spoke against him accusing them of outright lies and dragged their names through mud in public forums where LA had a nearly insurmountably high public opinion knowing everything that came out of his mouth was bs is also something that was due justice. Call me old school but I believe in fair play.


    I can say that I got into cycling because of the publicity the LA brought to the sport after his 1<sup>st</sup> tour win. Incredible athlete is right. Who wouldn’t be a fan of what that guy could do. I was a fan of his before I learned more about the sport.
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  6. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    I simply feel vindicated.

    I've been enduring all the hype about this great athlete when I knew it wasn't true.

    Did you find him to be an unbelievable athlete when Indurain absolutely blew his doors off in the final time trial of the 1995 TdF?

    He's not such a special athlete if you take away the fact that his body responded to the drugs better than his competitors. In the same way that his body responded to the cancer drugs and helped him to beat cancer.

    Physiologically he's average among elite cyclists. He just had the best pharma backing. Amgen? He had the best chemists.

    It's sad to see some of you refuse to remove your blinders. The problem is not gone by any means.
  7. Shuffler

    Shuffler Hommes Grande

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    +100 ...

    Wish we could turn back time ... put a non-doped Lance against any others non-doped ... I'd love to see what could have happened. Had he been in the Lemond era, Greg likely would have crushed him. Perhaps Indurain was on something, who knows...but that guy was low-key and well respected.

    The denial of the general public that Lance was some kind of exceptional 'phenom' is annoying...it was all built on science and enhanced with drugs. I suppose he was doped to the gills for the marathons & triathalons, too. Yeah, he's awesome.
  8. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    there are plenty who are suspicious of indurain as well...

    quite frankly, all of the top cyclists are suspect- look at the top 10 lists for the past decade or two, and the winners for the last 50 years, and i'll bet you'll find more people implicated in doping than not.
  9. Shuffler

    Shuffler Hommes Grande

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  10. Ben Carufel

    Ben Carufel Boxer Addict

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    Dec 2, 2010
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    I was going to say what PoundSand said above. How do we know that Indurain wasn't cheating, as well?

    Unfortunately, that's just the way it goes. Either way it still doesn't help or show well on Armstrong that he is trying to defend himself until what can only be called the "bitter end".

    I sent a quick note to Trek Bikes yesterday about my unhappiness with their "handling" of the Greg LeMond situation over the past years. Basically just said I'm not going to consider a Trek product until/unless they issue a public apology to Greg.

    I don't see that happening, but I suppose that's OK. I really liked my Tommaso and when I get another road bike, I'll probably get another one of those.
  11. Saso

    Saso chronically restless

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
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    But of course Greg was clean. :norton

    From a post in JM:

    1977
    1st National Road Race Champion (Junior)
    1978
    1st Overall Vuelta de Bisbee
    3rd TTT Junior World Championship
    1979
    1st World Road Race Champion (Junior)
    1st National Road Race Champion (Junior)
    1st Nevada City Classic
    2nd Track Pursuit, Junior World Championship
    1980
    1st Overall Circuit de la Sarthe
    1st Nevada City Classic
    3rd Overall, Circuit des Ardennes
    1981
    1st Overall Coors Classic
    1st Stage 1
    1st Stage 7
    1st Stage 2a Tour de Picardie
    1st Nevada City Classic
    3rd Route du Sud
    3rd Critérium du Dauphiné
    1982
    1st Overall Tour de l'Avenir
    2nd Stage 2
    1st Stage 4
    1st Stage 5
    1st Stage 8
    3rd Stage 10
    3rd Tour de Corse
    2nd Tour Méditerranéen (FRA)
    2nd UCI Road World Championships, Men
    3d Overall Tirreno - Adriatico
    1st Stage 3
    1983
    1st World Road Race Champion
    1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
    1st Stage 1
    1st Stage 5
    1st Stage 7b
    1st Stage 1 Tour Méditerranéen
    1st Super Prestige Pernod International
    2nd Stage 1 Tour de Suisse
    2nd Stage 3 Tour de Suisse
    3rd Stage 4 Tour de Suisse
    3rd Stage 7 Tour de Suisse
    2nd GP des Nations
    2nd Giro di Lombardia
    1984
    3rd Overall Tour de France
    1st Young Rider Classification
    1st Stage 3 (TTT)
    3rd Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
    1st Stage 7b
    3rd Liège-Bastogne-Liège
    1985
    2nd Overall Tour de France
    1st Stage 3 (TTT)
    1st Stage 21
    1st Combination classification
    2nd Points Classification
    4th Mountains Classification
    1st Overall Coors Classic
    1st Stage 5
    2nd UCI Road World Championships, Men
    2nd Vuelta Ciclista al País Vasco
    2nd Stage 2
    2nd Stage 3
    3rd Stage 5b
    3rd Giro d'Italia
    3rd Stage 12
    3rd Pernod-Super Prestige
    4th Paris-Roubaix
    1986
    1st Overall Tour de France
    1st Stage 13
    1st Combination classification
    4th Points Classification
    3rd Mountains Classification
    4th Overall Giro d'Italia
    1st Stage 5
    2nd Stage 16
    3rd Tour de Suisse
    3rd Prologue
    3rd Stage 1
    2nd Stage 3
    2nd Stage 6
    2nd Coors Classic
    3rd Paris-Nice
    2nd Milano-San Remo
    3rd Critérium International
    1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
    2nd Pernod-Super Prestige
    1989
    1st Overall Tour de France
    1st Stage 5
    1st Stage 19
    1st Stage 21
    1st World Road Race Champion
    1990
    1st Overall Tour de France
    1992
    1st Overall Tour DuPont
    1st Prologue
  12. dwes

    dwes Adventurer

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    Maybe I missed it, but has anyone wondered how he could be tested as much as he was and the tests came back clean??? Maybe the testing protocols and testers themselves need to be looked at.
  13. Ben Carufel

    Ben Carufel Boxer Addict

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    San Diego
    From what I understand -- and I am no expert -- the tests pre-2000 were somewhat easy to pass.

    In 2000, if I recall correctly, they introduced the EPO testing, but Dr. Ferrari figured out that by injecting EPO directly into the blood stream in small quantities (micro dosing) and also reintroducing fresh blood (which had been drawn -- clean -- at an earlier date) for the purposes of dilution, the hematocrit levels could be brought down to "normal" range in time for a test.

    But it's important to realize that the "500 tests passed" myth is just that -- a myth. I think it was Cyclismas who came up with a "maximum" number of 236 tests, which they were able to then somewhat verify via UCI and USADA records.
  14. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    Cadel Evans. I have never heard him implicated.
  15. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    i didn't say everyone- i said i'd bet more implicated than not. and because he hasn't been implicated (yet) doesn't make him nos suspect.

    i was going to do some research real quick here, but turns out i don't need to, and it's worse than i thought - i thought i was engaging in a little hyperbole, but turns out, i wasn't:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#Status_of_Tour_de_France_winners
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping..._histories_of_Top-10_finishers.2C_1998_-_2012

    and i didn't recall this, but indurain did test positive for salbutamol, banned by the french sports ministry in the Tour de L'Oise, but he ended up not being sanctioned for it; apparently other bodies allowed it for asthma sufferers, so they ended up not sanctioning him for it even though the french ministry didn't make allowances for it? a little whack, but whatever.
  16. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    Everybody needs to be looked at in this deal.

    USA Cycling in particular decided not to control cyclists prior to at least one world championships because they knew all their top guys would fail....and there would be controversy.

    All they did was put it off.

    And, yeah...we know the testing protocols were shit. No test for EPO until maybe 2002 (?)

    I'm surprised that we're not talking about how these fuckers were JUNKIES! The only difference is that the dragon they were chasing was victory. They lived like criminals, they were routinely breaking the law, cheating worthless scum.

    They could have walked away at any time, despite what Levi said, nobody forced them to cheat. Nobody forced them to stay inside the cheating culture. They saw a way to game the system and ran that program until they were forced into the light.

    Lance is the worst among them.
  17. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    I did read where you wrote 'all top cyclists are suspect' hence my response. I understand now that wasn't precisely what you meant. Cheers.
  18. cogitate

    cogitate What Marcellus Wallace Looks Like

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    Is your point that he could not have had those results clean?

    I think the ups and downs of Gregs career show a normal pattern. Gunshot wounds not withstanding.


  19. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    even lemond is suspect.
  20. Flaco

    Flaco Zombie Holocaust

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    Agreed that Indurain is also suspect BUT he didn't act like a tremendous asshole to everyone around him.