Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.
Not any more.
True, I was referring to the Tour.
Ya really think he won the worlds clean?
I guess he loses that, too.
Bah. Like some one else said the whole sport at this level is doping and they have been doping for years.
Long before lance even strapped on his first pair of cleats.
I wish the asshat would have come clean since some of the work he did with and for cancer awareness was really good stuff. And his foundation has become something.
From Joe Lindsey's Boulder Report:
"He is left, still, with a list of results that would make him a talented racer by any stretch: two stages of the Tour de France (1993, 1995); the 1995 San Sebastian Classic and Tour du Pont; 1996 Fleche Wallonne; and his standout result, the 1993 world championship."
disgusted by this entire process. USADA should be canned for wasting out tax dollars. WTF did this entire process accomplish?
the entire process was scripted. what are the chances of ALL riders that testified stopping drugs all at same time. sure would like to know what tactics was used in squeezing out confessions out of all riders.
imagine being in their shoes of facing jail time threats from US district attorney vs agreeing to a confession with little to no penalties. you can bet your ass, those confessions/deals didn't come without credible threats.
this abuse of power reminds me of how America has more folks locked up for pot than anywhere on earth. USADA has to justify the 10 million dollars they receive from tax payers each year. just like the DEA has to justify all the millions spend on war on drugs by locking up folks for pot.
I'm beyond caring if Lance doped or not. Not much disputing Lance has done way more good and bad. for all I know he stayed clean while rest of teammates doped to keep up.
what is 100% for sure ... USADA has zero concrete evidence of doping. it's 100% based on testimony. which regardless of how may millions $$ USDA spent to build up. it's still testimony without any hard evidence.
soon as I dig out my old Livestrong rubber bracelet. will be wearing it to show support.
Sooo hey, Jerry Sandusky was convicted of raping little boys. There was no hard evidence, just testimony. However, he was still convicted. You think he's innocent?
I'm not in any way saying that doping in cycling is akin to raping little boys, but it seems that if conviction based on multiple witnesses testifying works in one instance, it should work in another, right?
It accomplishes what the mission statement of the USADA says. To defend clean athletes.
And yea, you'll be showing something wearing the yellow bracelet
the two have nothing in common
what the USADA did in no way shape or form help clean athletes. all it did was waste millions of our tax dollars. what actually cleaned up athletes was more likely changes/advances in drug testing procedures off times. making it all but impossible to escape detection.
yes I'll be proud to wear my livestrong bracelet!!
just a wild guess... but you probably are in the camp that favors keeping pot as class 1 narcotic and locking folks up for pot too.
this has gone beyond if Lance doped or not. who gives a rats ass... if he did this should have been taken care off 10-12 years ago. it's the beyond unfair process reaching back over 12 years that I'm most insulted about.
an 8 year statue of limitations evidently means nothing to USADA when following rules. the same for all the drug tests given to cyclist for the last 12 years. it all means NOTHING when an agency like USADA has an agenda to meet.
Both convictions are based upon testimony and circumstantial evidence. Other than that, Absolutely Nothing in common...
Apparently you do give something more than a rats ass with your unreasoned ramblings about the proceedings resulting in a sociopathic cheat being given his just penalty.
A coupla points to ponder:
1. The statute of limitations is not applicable due to the serial nature of the program and the fact that it went on into the past two years. The SofL is based upon the date of the end of violations. Besides that, there is the racketeering nature of the violations that makes the SofL void.
2. Since you don't race and probably don't know anybody that does race at that level, the cheating by LA's team and all those around it, has no affect on your life. For racers that did or do race and chose not to dope, these F*CKING CHEATERS stole their opportunity to compete at the highest levels of bike racing. Imagine if you knew you had the talent to race with these guys but weren't willing to cheat to do it. You'd probably go back to racing in the US like many of my friends or take up another sport like others. I know several guys that were rockstars here but couldn't make it in Europe. These were guys that competed well stateside with the guys implicated in the "Reasoned Decision".
So when you say this is an unfair process, you're absolutely full of shit. The unfairness of it started in the 90's...
bullshit... it's been awhile but I used to race. used to put in 6k+ miles per year training. not claiming to know it all, but do claim to have cycled my fair share.
again ... have long passed caring if Lance cheated or not .. that might have been the issue 10-12 years ago. but good grief the crap USADA dug out happened some 12 years ago. ALL the riders involved are either retired or getting ready to. what part of statue of limitations do you not understand?
again ... it's the process and all the millions $$$ of our taxpayer dollars spent for this horseshit. for what??? who or what did it serve?
if you think USADA's process if fair, then you also think throwing folk in jail for pot is fair and the war on drugs is $$$ millions well spent. which by the way you have not answered???
to justify USADA's spending 10 million dollars a year? this bullshit about cleaning up the sport is total horseshit. what cleaned it up with tighter testing and advancing technologies. NOT anything USADA did 10+ years after the fact.
Those two statements alone pretty much make your "arguments" sound like pointless rambling.
I, for one, think USADA's process was as fair and necessary as it needed to be. I don't mind that it cost $10mil of taxpayer dollars. We waste a BOATLOAD more than that daily in many other ways. I DO NOT think that throwing folks in jail for pot is fair, and that the bogus war on drugs is fair.
By the way, have you pulled your head out of the sand long enough to see all of these other confessed dopers coming out of the woodwork and the major changes happening in cycling as we speak due to this? Do you honestly think any of that would have happened without the USADA doing what they did and releasing the "Reasoned Decision" on LA?
If you think that these guys would have come forth at some point in this kind of numbers on their own accord, you're outta your gourd. There needed to be some provocation -- some jolt -- to shake things up in the peloton and to get people to change their ways. This was that jolt.
Because your hero LA is at the middle of it, though, the entire thing becomes a big bullshit conspiracy for you?
Again, get your head out of the sand and look at the BIG PICTURE of what has been accomplished in the last two weeks alone for cycling. You really think the sport has been totally clean, even recently? Fat chance. I'd say there's a much better chance of cycling getting cleaned up now that all of this dirty laundry is hanging out there for folks to see...and if Pat McQuaid and company at UCI get thrown out in favor of some newer, less corrupt seeming folks, that's even more progress.
I'm not sure cy's head is in the sand though...
to begin with LA is not my hero. but one would have to be blind to not see all the good that he's done. IMHO the reason why a LOT of folks still support LA is our sense of fair play has been violated.
at least we agree on one thing... none of this would have come out without USADA's bullshit tactics. since all of the riders that confessed to the party line. we will not be hearing about all the strong arm tactics used by USADA to force those confessions out of them.
glad to see you are not for the bullshit war on drugs... throwing folks in jail for pot, resulting in a HUGE portion of our jail population. to me what USADA has done is very similar to what the DEA does everyday.
USADA has had zero effect on cleaning up cycling. Nada... nothing... poof ..
what cleaned up cycling is improvements in testing methods and procedures. now top cyclist have to log in on the web to advise tester where they are at any give time. so many misses and you are toast. then factor in improvement in testing for trace amounts. now labs are talking in terms 50 picograms per milliliter (or 0,000 000 000 05 grams per ml). (picograms- per-liter = parts-per-quadrillion). which the Contador case illustrated perfectly.
again... USADA has NOTHING to do with cleaning up cycling. so they've got to nail down a high profile person like LA to justify their existence. like it or not those are facts!
from another adv thread... could not have type it out better!!
I love this thread - all these pasty white dough boys - many who suit up in their matching top and bottom lycra riding outfits each weekend and hop on their $10,000+ TDF replica bikes - getting all self-righteous in their rants about morals and ethics, or the lack thereof - the ones who have wanted Lance's head on a platter for the past 12+ years. Why do all of you hate Lance so much? What has he done to hurt you? Those fuckers on Wall Street cheat and lie to make their millions each year at the expense of so many, yet you choose to hate Lance with such intensity? I know, you're jealous. Lance played in the Big Show and you don't and you never will. The Big Show was watched by millions of people because it had nothing to do with mere mortals like you. Who watches you race? They wanted what they want in any Big Show; special effects and a super hero. Lance delivered. He was the Jason Bourne of cycling. His face is etched in our minds just like Matt Damon's. Those epic mountain stages, grueling time trials, podium photo ops., etc.. The only difference is that Lance didn't have Hollywood's magic to create those special effects; he - and the other members of the cast - had to rely on a different kind of wizardry. Their special effects involved bringing physiology to a level that could make them super heroes. Only Lance was different - he had more talent to start with as well as good looks - a match made in Hollywood/elite professional sports heaven. The fact is, none of us really have any clue what it's like to compete on the world stage at the highest level possible. The stakes are beyond what our little minds could ever imagine including the notion that athletes performing at this level treat their bodies the same as the tools/machines they use to compete with. So, tear yourselves away from the copy machine. Leave your hatred there and return to your cubicles and go back to shopping for the latest and greatest groupo online while on your employer's nickel. Millions of people watched a super hero for seven years. They fell in love with him and they fell in love with professional cycling because of him. That's how the Big Show works. As for you - poor you. They don't know you. You're a nobody - nothing but a spiteful, insecure wannabe.