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Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.
Show me what I don't get.
Lance Armstrong 'agrees Sunday Times settlement'
Too bad they won't release the settlement.
Maybe someone will leak it, then deny they ever even saw the details, then curse, threaten, bully, and sue anyone who suggests they leaked the details, then admit they leaked the details all along.
I just hope that lying bucket of hog anus stays out of cycling for the rest of his life.
And yet, with this looming, dark, stinking, wretched mountain of doping and cheating still hanging over the sport, we still have racers going positive at the Giro?
I guess you got rid of the Livestrong bracelet.
Ironic you have a terrorist cunt for a username.
I'd be happy to meet you in CS&M to discuss the matter further.
But since this is about bicycle racing and people come here intent on reading about cyclists and racing, why don't you keep your worthless opinions to yourself in this particular forum?
Yes, the livestrong bracelet has been off. And not because of the drug use, but because of the manner in which he defended himself while he was doping.
Not all share this belief, but I firmly believe the sport will be better and safer without doping.
If you want to watch a professional sport without doping, go back to the first couple years it was introduced. After that, good luck.
Once people figure out they can make big money in a sport, it's no holds bar.
I don't see what the big deal is. Professional athletes make a living by their physical performance. They use all resources available. Same as any other profession. These guys' resources just happen to be a controversial subject.
I never had a bracelet.
I think you are mistaken about when the big explosion of serious performance enhancing drugs occurred in this sport.
Not once they start doping or any other chemical enhancements.
Not sure I'm following you
Do you want to see them make a living by their physical performance or do you want to see who has the most money and is willing to take the most risks to their long term health buy having the drugs do it for them?
You do realize steroids don't automatically "give" you muscles. Steroids is more so a training aid. People take them so they can train harder. Training harder makes you better. Taking steroids and not training harder and you'll be in the same situation then before you took them.
Look at the "sport" of bodybuilding. Those guys don't sit around playing x-box popping pills. They have trained and trained and trained. The most dedicated wins those competitions as one bad move can mean the difference in podium or not.
Steroids are way more common then you think, and if you've ever played a sport or go to a gym, it'd be impossible for you to throw a handful of rocks and not hit someone who's juicing. People who are against it are naive people who don't understand that it's not a miracle drug, don't understand that there is more to training then just doing it, or b/c they have some made up idea that it's immoral.
To be a professional athlete you have to train harder then most and perform more then most. Which amounts to overtraining. Overtraining wrecks a body, short and long term. Testosterone/performance enhancing drugs fix a lot of those problems. With out them, you'd get one-two years out of an athlete before their body starts to fall apart. The public expects these athletes to perform, and expects them not to let them down. People expect way too much out of professional athletes and then shun them at the first sign of an "immoral" act.
If I was Lance, Barry Bonds, A-rod, etc.... I'd tell everyone of the cry babies to pack sand. Then laugh as you cheer on the other guy b/c he's "clean".
They do have drug free bodybuilding competitions for normal folks. The competitors train just as hard, but they don't look like the cartoonish vein popping circus freaks you see in the muscle mags. Of course, the only testing they do is a polygraph. At least that was my experience when I was pressured into entering one by the gym owner back in the late 90's.
So by your own comments it is not a display of physical ability but a display of well designed chemical cocktails.
If it is all about the juice, why don't athletes come clean and demand the fans support chemically enhanced sports? They don't because they too want to promote the idea that it is all about physical ability.
The fans also carry a significant part of the problem in that they demand more and more choosing to believe it is possible without enhancement and then have the gall to be shocked when it is shown the athlete used chems to get there.
Personally I would rather see it be all about physical ability since I think it take more work and heart to use the strengths you have (naturally) and work around your weaknesses then it does to buy a drug routine. I would also prefer to see athletes not put their health in jeopardy just to please the crowd.
You are welcome to your opinion as well, but at least be honest and admit that it is about biochemistry and not just physical ability.
i believe this has been shown to be false- iirc, there have been studies that showed anabolic steroids increase muscle mass even without working out.
It appears you didn't read what I said. Yes the "biochemistry" helps, but without their physical ability it would be worthless. Physical ability gets you started, the biochemistry helps maintain and grow past natural ability for the demands of the sport. An 18y/o kid isn't going to do a cycle of steroids and automatically be a pro. He lacks the PHYSICAL ABILITY. Lance beat the best juicers in the business. Sure he juiced, but his "physical ability" from training better then the rest put him over the top. I could take 10x the stuff lance took, not going to make me get up that hill faster then him.
Why don't the athletes come out??? Are you serious? People freak out when someone gets caught. Look at this thread. We wouldn't be having this conversation if people weren't so naive. OMG, a top professional athlete is juicing!!! I'd be more surprised to find a top athlete not juicing.
Plus it's illegal. Same reason you don't see people openly admitting drug use. The stigma that follows steroid users is the same, if not worse. People view drug users as simply that. A user. The public views steroids users as not only drug users but cheaters. Not hard to figure that one out.
No shit. But on what level is the point. You're talking minimal amounts of gain. Go ahead and do a couple cycles without doing any physical activity. Then let me know how much you look like a pro bodybuilder, how much you can DL, or how fast you can pedal your bike up a hill.
You're way better off working out only a few times a week instead of doing a cycle without physical activity.
Maybe they are viewed that way because they are. But if it is so important to the sport why do they not make the effort to change the view and work to make it legal?
It's hard enough trying to convince people that eating fat doesn't make you fat.
Not to mention that if they made it legal, people would abuse it, like any other substance. Steroids are exactly the same. Plenty of people cycle on and off correctly and are perfectly healthy. Others abuse it, (more is better mentality) and that's where it gets its bad name.
I expect the view of it will lessen in years, especially since they are pushing TRT so much on mainstream tv. So in time, people will realize it's not this monster it's made out to be.
On a different aspect, the people running these organizations know of its use. They understand that these athletes are able to do what they do b/c of it. But, these athletes bring in the $$$ so they don't care. Only time they act like they do is when the public gets wind of an athlete using and freaks, so they play innocent and push punishment. I expect that, plus Lance being cocky (rightfully so) is what brought to his demise. If he walked around kissing babies and handing out Tour De France tshirts they would of protected him more. But once he was backed into the corner with no escape, the committee has no choice but to follow through with punishment. If they didn't they'd be condoning an illegal act. It's all about public relations and being PC.
The aspiring athletes and their coaches know the way to the top, and it's up to the athlete to make the call. You can be good, or you can run with the best. Make the pick. Doesn't matter to them, b/c there is a line of 100 more waiting for the chance.