Lance Armstrong

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. dtirell

    dtirell Dain Brammaged

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    I find this part amusing. So people only use responsibly if it is illegal? :huh


    As to claim of being perfectly healthy, if you are honest the jury is out on that point. Yes they may be healthy today as some risks may not show up until years later. The reality is there have not been a lot of long term detailed studies on the overall impact of some of these drugs.

    Beyond this, personally I think it is a very selfish attitude to demand so much from athletes that we require them to over train and feel the requirement to take experimental drugs to enhance their performance to the level to meet the fans demands.
  2. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    no. first, you kind of implied that there was no gains from steroids with no exercise ("Taking steroids and not training harder and you'll be in the same situation then before you took them"). second, the effect is significant- taking steroids and NOT exercising can be MORE effective than exercising without steroids in terms of gaining muscle mass.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#Results=&t=articleResults
  3. SpeedoJosh

    SpeedoJosh Been here awhile

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    Sorry, meant to say MORE people would abuse it. As of now, you can get it pretty easily. If it was available at GNC.com, then the abuse would be ridiculous.
  4. Buzz363

    Buzz363 Been here awhile

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    "The reality is there have not been a lot of long term detailed studies on the overall impact of some of these drugs."


    Perhaps but the fact is steroids have been used by athletes since the 40's and there are no deaths attributed to their use (abuse). Before someone trots out Lyle Alzado his own Dr. states his brain cancer was not steroid related.

    Watch "Bigger, Stronger. Faster". An interesting movie about PED's.
  5. Norhasken

    Norhasken Tryin' to find my way

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  6. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    From what I can find, the first anabolic steroid was used in sports in 1958.

    It's fair to say that before 1958, a great many athletes had careers longer than one to two years.

    You say they didn't train as hard back then? Well, today, I don't think it's stretching the truth to say that today, the majority of baseball and tennis players, for example, do not use performance enhancing drugs. They, too, have careers longer than 1-2 years.

    So I don't think it's reasonable to claim that without drugs, athletes' bodies would break down irreparably.

    Baseball, in particular, cannot permit PEDs without losing a major chunk of its identity. Baseball is the oldest professional sport in the United States, with records going back to 1876. Baseball makes a fetish of its statistics. Stats are a huge part of the game's culture and identity.

    Roger Maris' single season home run record stood for 38 years. In the space of just two years, it was broken six fucking times. That's a major league problem for baseball, which had to do something or just throw out all of its old records and statistics.
  7. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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  8. Schlug

    Schlug JockeyfullofBourbon

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    From the article:

    “The truth of Armstrong’s deception remained hidden for years. In an effort to hold onto his money and apparent Tour victories, Armstrong lied about his use of banned substances repeatedly and emphatically, and threatened or sued anyone who attempted to expose him. And until recently, his extensive cover-up was successful. Armstrong duped his friends, sponsors, anti-doping officials, most of the international cycling community, and most of the American public. Indeed, by Armstrong’s own account, even his family thought he was clean,” the DOJ wrote in its response to Armstrong.


    Seems right on the money. If this is all they need to prove their case Armstrong is sunk.
  9. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    I've no idea what the law is in this stuff. But one Armstrong allegation sticks: the US Post Office never, not once, investigated him, despite all the rumors and accusations. Whether they had any obligation to is beyond my ken, but it does speak to a degree of collusion.
  10. Charlie Brown

    Charlie Brown Sweeter than YooHoo

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    baseball players are tested about twice in a 12 month period.
  11. wdeTA

    wdeTA TransAlp Adv

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  12. Southest US Thumper

    Southest US Thumper Extreme n00b

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    He caught my eye in '89, LeMond took back the 54 second lead from Fignon and won the Tour, Armstrong was the Texas Jr. Champ the same year, '89 I believe. We cheered him on in Iraq in '04, an American kicking butt, and then it all became undone.

    Fuck Armstrong! Liar and Cheater, all he did for me was give me an appreciation for Sheryl Crow after his years of kicking us in the balls...
  13. ]I)Money

    ]I)Money D NOT I

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  14. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    Cycling legend Greg LeMond: Lance Armstrong belongs in jail over doping scandal

    LeMond won the Tour de France three times
    After Armstrong's titles were stripped, LeMond became the only American ever to win the prestigious race
    Armstrong admitted to doping during an interview with Oprah Winfrey earlier this year

    Shamed U.S. cyclist Lance Armstrong was at the head of an 'organized mafia and he literally tried to destroy people' and he 'belongs in jail.'

    That's according to cycling great Greg LeMond, who gave a scathing critique of his sport's most recognizable athlete during an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday night.

    According to LeMond, Armstrong would have been a 'top 30 at best' cyclist if not for his now-infamous doping regiment and he is 'not capable of winning the Tour de France' if not for the help of banned substances.

    ------------

    Evidence overwhelmingly indicates Greg LeMond Doped....

    Whatever the outcome maybe of the forthcoming investigations into the Lance Armstrong saga, it is too bad that LeMond won't be remembered for being a great cyclist, but instead as a great whiner & in the process turned into a pathetic curmudgeon. He’s been bested & ousted from his perch as the best cyclist ever to come out from America - deal with it.

    While Greg throws insult after insult, hoping for it to stick to something, Lance is able to remain calm and let Greg lose his reputation. Lance keeps the higher ground and doesn't in dignify himself with a fight. If they both got into it verbally, nobody would look good.

    With the same amount of proof that has been brought to light against Lance, I charge LeMond of doping as well.

    -Explain, how in the course of a couple of days, mid 1989, he could go from being shelled out the back at even dropped by the sprinters in the mountains of the Giro to finishing on the podium during the final time trial - and then going onto win the Tour and the Worlds. Seeing Greg go up the final climb in the worlds just made a complete mockery of everyone in the race. An impressive piece of big gear climbing. The first half of the season is a complete disaster for Greg with many races not even finished and then "oh, I have an iron deficiency". I almost remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by vitamin B12 and iron shots from his soigneur, Otto, and coming back into form. Having suffered from aenemia and gone through similar 'shots' I know, like many others, that you don't just recover mystically overnight, or even over a few days... If Greg was given something, knowingly or not, for anemia and the resulting low hematocrit and hgb and it worked really fast - it certainly wasn't "iron shots". I could think of something that was out in the pro peloton that'd fit a rapid increase of performance. When you're dropped on all the mountain stages and do very poorly in the prologue and the first time trial of the Giro but 'mystically' come back for a podium finish in the final time trial then something, somewhere happened. So what did miraculously turn his form around overnight & what did he take?. I claim EPO. When you're talking about quitting the sport you know things are really bad.

    - Gregs' increase in performance from a few shots of vitamins and iron in the hiney does not compute. Insinuate from that what you will... EPO might take weeks but there's always transfusions...

    - And for someone who rides as hard as Greg, I don’t buy it for one second he rode it as training, look at his resume pre ’89, riding hard in every event.

    -Whatever happened to the LeMond line of bicycles? That's right. It was sold to Trek which later became a sponsor of and exclusive builder for the United States Postal squad. As I recall that team had a fairly good American rider on it and soon after it began its association with U.S. Postal the LeMond line of bicycles practically disappeared off the face of the planet. I wonder if Mr. LeMond finds that annoying? Answer: YES! He sued Trek in 2008 and Trek counter-sued to sever the business relationship with LeMond because nobody wants to buy a bike with that mewling turds name painted on it. Yet another reason for LeMond's hatred of his better and his desire to see druggie Floyd succeed in destroying Armstrong? Get a life Greg, you use to be just irrelevant but now most American cycling fans think your a pathetic desperate loser.

    -In his the book "Bad Blood", he seems to indicate he left the Tour because he could not keep up with the r-EPO era cyclists. Didn’t stop him challenging the dopers of Fignon &co of ’89 & ’90. The drug testing starts advancing & its suddenly “he could not keep up with the r-EPO era cyclists of ’94. BS.

    -I remember one exchange between Greg and Lance when Lance said something like the following to Greg: "How is it that you have the fastest time trial ever in the Tour de France?" Greg didn't have much of a response. It's a good question though since if everyone was doping at the time and Greg's time trial was still faster, he's either genetically from another planet or he was also doping when he rode that time trial.

    -He beat a man (Fignon) who has since admitted to doping in 1989. He had the fastest time trial of that length or greater for many years (including all the years he claimed were full of dopers) DESPITE the fact that if you watch it, he's rocking all over the place and very un-aero and using a flexier bike than today. He made up 58 seconds on Laurent Fignon (confessed doper), ultimately winning the race by 8 seconds. YEAH RIGHT.

    - Were Fignon ('89) and Chiapucci ('90) denied their rightful place as winners of the TdF in 1989 and 1990 by an EPO doper? You need to answer these questions Mr. LeMond.

    One big piece of "evidence" he gives for proving he was dope free and others doped was how just one year after he won the TDF, suddenly he was finishing in the pack and beaten by others he'd beaten his whole career. But, in 1990 Lemond won with an average speed of 38.621 kph. The next year, the Big Mig won at an avg speed of 38.747 kph. That's a 0.3% difference. 1/3 of a percent.

    -As well, his claim that him finishing 7th the next year, and thus was beaten by dopers, doesn't hold up. If Big Mig was a doper, then wouldn't Lemond's claim also hold true for him? But Big Mig won 5 years in a row and then the next year was 11th, even bigger of a drop off than Lemond.

    LeMond portrays himself as Mr. squeaky clean but like so many other riders, hes dirty as the next rider, make no quarms about it. So look on the bright side -- at least someone is "probing" Armstrong – unfortunately it's not you!.
  15. Southest US Thumper

    Southest US Thumper Extreme n00b

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    Oops, my bad.
  16. shrineclown

    shrineclown Vaginaterian

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    Well done. I used to respect Greg until he started calling the kettle black...now he is just a sad pot. He'd be on the same trail if they wanted to do that investigation. But as you have aptly presented, he is just too irrelevant to bother now. A chirping, featherless mockingbird.
  17. SpeedoJosh

    SpeedoJosh Been here awhile

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    Wow, with all the steroid usage in sports these days, I'm surprised people are still crying about Lance. Go grab a tissue and move on. He did what most top athletes did, he just did it better. If it wasn't for the fact that most people are lazy fucks who have no life and live off the drama of the famous, this shit wouldn't of lasted 2 weeks in the news.

    How many of you cry babies have started a nonprofit organization that has helped millions, and will continue to help more people then you could ever know.

    :fyyff
  18. Mercury264

    Mercury264 Once you go Triple...

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    Another one that doesn't get it :rolleyes
  19. Southest US Thumper

    Southest US Thumper Extreme n00b

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    Screw you noob! I haven't shed one tear over the Loser, I've lived in an environment where "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying and if you get caught, you weren't trying hard enough." was the motto. But I didn't lie and stamp my feet when caught, I took my lickings.

    So why don't you go out and buy yourself another wrist band and feel good about it. What's you PP add? I'll send you the coin, what the heck, how's about I buy you another Speedo too?
  20. SpeedoJosh

    SpeedoJosh Been here awhile

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    Aww dang. You joined ADV before me. Guess you got me there. :*sip*

    Sure you haven't shed a tear? Sure sounds like you're crying right now. It's cool man. I'm sure you and Mercury can hold hands, and console each other.

    Let's exchange PP addresses. You can send me a new bracelet and speedo. I'll send you a box of tissues. Make that two since you live/lived in such an intense environment. :whip