Lance Armstrong

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Green Stainz, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. Kamala

    Kamala Long timer

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    Outrageous that they are still chasing this ghost. Someone must really have a stick up their ass over Mr. Armstrong.
    #81
  2. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    My thoughts run in this direction:

    He either didn't dope and won (no positives, remember?)

    or

    He DID do it and did it better and beat em at their own game

    Either way, he beat em.

    ...but he's been retired for how long now? 'Course, since he's back into racing Tri-s, I can sorta-kinda see keeping the investigation going. Kinda sorta. Ya also gotta remember he was kicking ass in tri-s at 16! If he was doping at 16, I'll be really, really surprised.

    M
    #82
  3. FlagRS

    FlagRS Gone to the Dogs

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    yeah my wife is pretty blown away and she was looking forward to watching him do Ironman.
    #83
  4. Signal

    Signal Cynical Idealist

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    Agreed-
    Also bearing in mind that since Indurain- EVERY tour winner (with the exception of Evans last year) has been busted for doping, even the spanish guy that finished second to Landis was busted in the Velta a few months later...and even Indurain was suspect (he quit racing just as EPO testing came around in 1998).

    Lemond may have been the only one in recent memory not busted, even at a later date.
    #84
  5. Weirdo

    Weirdo Welcome to you're "DOOM"

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    That's the thing. They decide that Lance was doping and they take his titles away and give it to the next guy in line....who most likely was doping.

    What's the point?
    #85
  6. Signal

    Signal Cynical Idealist

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    It does seem there is an ongoing agenda within WADA.
    Are thet gonna give a title to Ullrich or others, who were actually caught?
    #86
  7. Chisenhallw

    Chisenhallw Avowed Pussbag

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    what a load of bollocks.
    #87
  8. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    There's never been a doubt in my mind that he's on or was on the juice or some other doping scheme.

    In fact I seriously doubt that anyone who's worn the yellow in the last 20 years is dope free.

    That doesn't mean that he's not an incredible cycling machine.

    There's part of my that wishes that cycling would just come clean and say.
    Look we dope, we are juiced. It's the way the sport at this level works.

    Live with it.

    Like someone else said, are they just going to hand the title on down the line until they get to some domestique that's way off the back somewhere and is clean...
    #88
  9. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

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    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all pro sports are in a doping era. Baseball may (may?) have backed off a bit, but any highly paid professional sport where one can see real benefit the athletes will dope. Physicians & bio-chemists will assist them.

    Cycling has real benefits to doping. Huge. I believe Lance doped, a bunch of smoke there. But I also believe most of the field he was beating doped too. The dopers were (are) ahead of the detectors. Even now they are going after Lance in a "non-anylitic case."

    So what? How many of the runner ups have been found to be dopers? How many of the others were or will be analyzed in the same way as Lance is now being accused?

    One could read between the lines of the USADA chief's comments when the federal criminal investigation was dropped that this may be coming. But what will they be proving?

    Years ago in pole vault they went from bamboo to fiberglass poles. Fiberglass had huge advantages. Records flew up. If you competed with a bamboo pole you would lose. Lance had a fiberglass pole. :nod But so did everyone else in the peleton.


    Convince me that the following did NOT dope. You will have a tough time.

    Looks like every single runner up is tainted. This isn't something this very casual fan before spending some time with Wiki. How deep into the pack do you need to go before you get away from the odor of taint?

    I don't understand what this inquiry will prove at all? It is a waste of time, money and effort.
    #89
  10. Offblnz

    Offblnz Long timer

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    I guess that what professional cycling has become is a competition in who has the best medical team and that no matter how good the governing part of the sport is to detect new forms of doping, they're still playing catch-up to the huge monied teams who can afford having the best of the best chemist at their disposal.
    #90
  11. Signal

    Signal Cynical Idealist

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    Perhaps- but they are/were by far the most tested.

    Unions/regulations etc prevented regular or frequent testing of Football/baseball/basketball until pretty recently.

    Can you imagine how many football palyers would have tested positive in the late 80's/90's...They still are only tested 1-2 x a year. Can you imagine them being tested after every winning game? Cyclists are.
    #91
  12. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

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    But even at the level of testing that Cyclists go through many are able to get by for multiple years it seems.

    Oh hell yes, Football? king of the steroid sports. Still being used hugely would be my guess.
    #92
  13. Signal

    Signal Cynical Idealist

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    I've gone around with this in my melon over the years, comes down to two sides of the fence-

    1. The cyclists are way ahead of the testing, both with coveing techniques and prehaps foreknowledge of the test/procedures and timing (as is the case with US pro sports, the testing is rarely random and follows predictive patterns).
    Pro- would explain the lack of positives caught
    Con- Most of the testing (post Festina in 1999) has been very aggressive, random both in and out of season, and testing both winners and random participants at races. Also would be difficuly for those without huge budgets to keep up any cover up. The cycling community is pretty tight (a few hundered guys, each sort of tied to each other). Smaller teams would certainly catch wind of larger, organized doping and would have played along (hoping to get on a better team next year) or would have called them out to level teh field.

    2. THere simply are not as many cases of doping/or as widespread as implied- ie: they passed because they WERE CLEAN at the time (only to get caught later. Many of the modern tour tiders that have been busted were actually caught ot the Velta or GIro, or some "B" race- during a recovery or training race
    Pro- Makes sense, noting most who have admitted doping outlined only episodic use.
    Con- They've been dirty all teh time- the screening just sucked
    #93
  14. Lobby

    Lobby Viel Spass, Vato!

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    Where I'm stuck is the unfairness of this "double jeopardy." Yeah, I know this isn't a criminal case, but how often does a guy have to win in court before he's declared innocent? Heck, not guilty would be good enough.

    And what about the cost for Lance for all this? When he was a successful cyclist, he prob had loads of cash. Now?

    This whole thing screams of unfairness...
    #94
  15. Signal

    Signal Cynical Idealist

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    Agreed.
    And to what end (the chronic investigation), to justify years of $$$ spent, so ultimately they can give a title from 10 years ago to a confirmed doper? :huh
    #95
  16. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    Except that the last round they found that lance didn't break any laws, they didn't say if had had juiced.

    And if recall Lance himself has always claimed something to the effect of "I've never failed a doping test" not that he hasn't doped just that he hasn't been caught.
    #96
  17. Offblnz

    Offblnz Long timer

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    They have been pumping, sniffing, eating, injecting shit into their veins since 1903 and it's still the teams being way ahead of the governing part of racing.
    I do remember that one of the doctors from Le Tour said something to that effect, that in a lot of ways the governing part will always be trying to play catch up to the scientist that provide racers with illegal ways of enhancing their performance, because it's much more difficult to test for things you might not even be aware of being used than it is to know what you're specifically looking for. This was the case with EPO where the governing part were really late in discovering the outspread abuse among riders.
    There's a lot of things that riders can do that are absolutely legal and that have raised their ability to go from race to race without serious injury to their health, and that is all thanks to the involvement of scientist too, but it's a slippery slope and the limits are constantly being challenged and or moved because we know more about the human body than a 100 years ago.

    Yeah, I do believe Lance was doped out of his skull, but I also believe that everyone he competed against all those years were doped out of their skulls. He just had the better scientist.
    So in the end, it probably was much more a competition among your peers than anyone cheating more or less or getting more or less caught with the syringe in their veins.
    If we're all equally bad, we're all equally good.....or some such nonsense.

    They used to say about Le Tour de France "No dope, no hope!" and I don't think that has changed much. It is a race that is unbelievably hard and it has not gotten any easier. If you want to make a living racing bikes and not kill yourself, you've got to seek help to survive all those races through a whole season, because, next year the show starts again.
    #97
  18. cathulu

    cathulu Been here awhile

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    It is time for lance to go down. The game is up, the biggest fraud in perhaps the history of sport will finally face the music. That is a good thing. Otherwise let everyone dope with impunity because lance gets away with it because he has done too much good! Too much good lmao. What good has he done but leave a pile of shit with the other turds in cycling. Cut the head of the snake I say.

    Sent from my GT-I9100M using Tapatalk 2
    #98
  19. Chisenhallw

    Chisenhallw Avowed Pussbag

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    Haters gonna hate, but I still believe in Lance.
    #99
  20. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

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    I just have trouble believing the miraculous. Yeah, some guy pounded every rival-- every rival who was shown to be dirty themselves. But he was clean himself?

    Just can't see it.