LC4 Charging problems

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by AllEuro, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. AllEuro

    AllEuro Sausage Creature calling

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    I'm working on a 00 LC4 enduro and it is failing to charge the battery and has a slight voltage drain with the key off and a meter hooked between the ground and - terminal of the battery. It will run if kicked over but the voltage on the battery is around 10.5 volts while running 12+ if turned off and battery is charged. Ideas? or does anyone have emailable service manual info that I could test out the various components to sort out the culprit.

    Cheers,
    Mr. B
    #1
  2. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    there is a manual to the 03 LC4 adventure that has the wiring diagrams. might not have changed much since 00...

    in the thread index at the top of this forum is a "links to other downloads" near the top that goes to my yahoo briefcase and the manual is in two parts near the bottom.
    #2
  3. Thorny

    Thorny Been here awhile

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    My lc4 charges only when it is revved above idle. At idle the draw from the parking lights and whatever other reisitence there is only allows the battery to sit at about 10v as well. Test your bike again (if you have not already) at higer rpm and see if that does not help. I've also found that with the headlight on the battery will not charge even at higher revs.


    I always chalked it up to a weak stator, if you find a fix please post it here, I'd love to learn what you find out.

    thorny
    #3
  4. Ignore Amos

    Ignore Amos bruised, dazed & confused

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    LC4 Adventure...can you upgrade the stator?
    #4
  5. Gaz

    Gaz Slow Man

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    Sounds like time for a new battery. A voltage that low will kill a battery very quickly.
    #5
  6. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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    Hi mate,

    sounds like your rectifier has a problem. You will find the little bugger next to the battery. The strange thing with the cooling fins on it.
    Measure if the diodes in there are still working.
    Take a multimeter set it to ohms and measure between yellow and red in both directions.
    One direction should give you no read out. Do this with all three yellow cables.
    If one or more give you a readout in both directions you will have to get a new rectifier.

    Also just FYI.
    If your bike is at 3500revs you should have a charging voltage of 13.6 to 14.5 V. Even at idle the voltage should not go below 13V. Otherwise your connectors are corroded or something is broken.

    Very common problem on KTM's is the main ground wire from the battery to the frame. Check if the contact is clean and tight.
    If you need mor information give me a PM.

    cheers

    Stefan
    #6
  7. AllEuro

    AllEuro Sausage Creature calling

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    The Battery is new and charged and I did rev the engine with no results or change in the output. I will do the diode check and look into the ground wire connections. Is there a test to see if the stator is putting out or is the fact that the bike is running confirm that the stator is making power?

    Cheers,
    Brian
    #7
  8. Velocibiker

    Velocibiker Adventure Antagonist

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  9. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    I heard one mention (flanny I believe) that there is no room for any more stator in there; no rewinding room. Unless rewindings can upgrade output with the same volume of windings? Increasing charging system output is almost a dead horse BTW; the best output improvement is reducing load, and HID replacements for the halogens is the biggest bang, for big bucks unfortunately...
    #9
  10. Ignore Amos

    Ignore Amos bruised, dazed & confused

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    Between the flow chart and Happe's post I hope to lick (or at least diagnose) the problem..
    #10
  11. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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    Here we go:

    If you want to measure the Stator find the cables colored black, red and white. If you measure red to black and to white you should have 12.7ohms +-20%
    Charging Coil: locate the yellow cables and the white cable
    measure all yellow cables to ground, should read 0.65ohms +-20%
    all yellow cables to the white cable should read 0.16ohms +-20%

    This is for the Kokusan system (in all 640 Lc4 E /Adventure with E-start)

    hope that helps

    cheers

    Stefan
    #11
  12. Brucasso

    Brucasso Been here awhile

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    One thing you might check is the Solenoid, I was riding with a friend and his LC4's solenoid worked its way up out of the rubber clamp and shorted out on the frame. Didn't fry anything, just would not start after he shut it down.
    #12
  13. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Hi Stefan,
    Trying to follow your directions and colors and am copying down the procedure for any future problems. The colors for the stator wires are a little different on my wiring diagram.
    They are:
    Black/red, Red/black, white, yellow, green
    Are your instructions to check as follows:
    red/black to black/red=12.7V
    red/black to white=12.7V
    All yellow to ground .65 Ohms
    All yellow to white .16 Ohms
    All ohms +-20%
    Thanks for your help on this. I can't find this anywhere. Please correct me.
    Bill in Tomahawk, WI.
    #13
  14. AllEuro

    AllEuro Sausage Creature calling

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    I'm not finding the wire colors that Stefan called out in his post regarding the stator test. It appears that I did kill the new battery as well by riding the bike with it not charging and the lights, fan etc. taking it's toll on the battery. ( I charged it last night and it failed to come up to 12.6 V still in the 11.3 V range.) Maybe we can get some more info from the brain trust on some additional testing to sort this thing out. I appreciate all the help on this one from the gang. I got my Gas Gas back on the trail for this weekend so I have some time to sort this one out now.

    Aloha,
    Brian
    #14
  15. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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    Hi check this Plan to find your colors.
    http://www.ktminfo.com/partscat/images/Info/2000_640adv_ele.pdf

    If you can't find it let me know.
    I'm back in the office tomorrow


    cheers

    Stefan
    #15
  16. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Stefan,
    The colors are close but two wires you named have two colors.
    Could you go through the testing procedure again for the stator wires for the correct procedure for seeing 12.7 V.
    Should the bike be running or not, if not running ignition on or off. Sorry to ask such simple questions but Iam not sure of the answers.
    Bill in Tomahawk
    #16
  17. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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    :eek1

    Hi Brian, Bill, ??:huh

    Looks like I'm messing up two electric systems at the same time :D

    Bill,
    to measure you have to disconnect the generator and the rectifier.
    Will be impossible to start the engine :bmwrider
    Also have the ignition off. You just want to measure the single part.
    What year and modell is your bike?

    Both:
    I had a look thru the wiring diagrams and it looks like KTM changed generators over the years :huh

    Brian:
    Here we go:
    There is no extra charging coil in this generator
    you should have a yellow, a red/black and a black/red cable
    If you now measure
    red/black to black/red
    red/black to yellow
    black/red to yellow
    you should read 0.45-0.56 ohms

    If you are fiddling around down there, measure the pulser coil too.
    Should be a green and a white cable. Should read 80-120ohms.

    But I think your problem is in the rectifier. Measure the red to each of the yellow cables. In both directions. In one direction you should read nothing. This will show you if the diodes in the rectifier are ok. They usually block the power in one direction. If you read something in both directions the rectifier is toast.

    cheers :freaky

    Stefan

    *7 days to Morocco*
    #17
  18. AllEuro

    AllEuro Sausage Creature calling

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    Thanks for the help I will go at it tonight with the new instructions I did the previous check and got no readings in either direction on the rectifier. I think it may be the stator? I will go done to my boat and get my fluke meter and try things out this weekend. All this work on the old ktm made me buy a new 05 TE 450 Husky for a change of pace. Good deal and I'm week for new bikes.
    #18
  19. AllEuro

    AllEuro Sausage Creature calling

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    Stefan,

    I checked the rectifier with my Fluke meter I was using a phony pocket unit until I retreived the Fluke, The rectifier checked out OK with no readings in one direction and all the readings in the other other direction checking out the same.

    As for the stator All the readings were different and none near the +/- 20% of .45 ohms. the resitence was higher and all the readings were way off from each other. So I guess I need a stator? I just want to be sure as it is surely a spendy unit. I just paid $300 for one on my Gas Gas that came as a unit with the pick up and ignition unit all as one. Is there any further test before I go see my friendly parts man. I really appreciate the help on this one.

    aloha,
    Brian
    #19
  20. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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    Hi Brian,

    what readings did you get?

    cheers

    Stefan
    #20