Leather vs. Textile 60mph lowside shredding test

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Gruesome, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    Apologies if this test has been posted or discussed here before - I didn't find it, but I have seen plenty of discussions of textile vs. leather that I thought could benefit from this information.

    In 2007 the German automobile club "ADAC" decided to shred some leather and textile suits, by dropping a crash test dummy at 60 mph in a lowside slide.
    Very interesting results - according to this test, in the case of a slide you are better off with $200 leather jeans than a $2000 Rukka...
    http://www.endurowanderer.de/pdf/kombitest.pdf

    If anybody knows of an English translation, please post it.
    #1
  2. abhibeckert

    abhibeckert Long timer

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    Not surprising... but if you wear full leathers where I live, you will suffer from heat stroke while riding.

    Even my full mesh textile so light and airy you can see straight through it, had me in a light sweat while riding 80kmh down the highway yesterday.
    #2
  3. Skippii

    Skippii Milkshakes, my lad.

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    What are leather jeans?


    And are these Germans testing "motorcycle leathers", or Lederhosen leather?
    #3
  4. russellkt

    russellkt Adventurer

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    Great link - I've been looking for a report like this for awhile. Here's the google translation of the main article:

    Main Article
    We felt really sorry for the dummy. 30 times he had to slip away from the motorcycle lowside. Floundering he skidded on the tarmac along until he is in the final meters around its longitudinal axis finally turned and remained motionless. Then ADAC investigator Ruprecht Müller visited the victim and assessed the visible damage to the protective clothing. The results of unprecedented, even by the ADAC tests developed to determine the protective effect of motorcycle apparel made not only the experimenter pensive.

    The wearing of protective clothing is among motorcycle fans one of the most controversial topics in general. The "armor" for the one kilometer long journey to fillup at the gas station? Pooh! In jeans and leather jackets brisk the 40 miles over land to the jet-girlfriend? Both there, and in between, lies an enormous range of more or less reasonable behavior. Finally, it is the risk to get hurt while riding a motorcycle is much higher than when driving. Therefore it remains that only a protective helmet in addition, motorcycle gloves, and boots are worn. But this only gives a minimum level of passive safety. Over the last 15 years more products from high strength materials have been used to compete with the classic leather upper. Protectors are also often combined with both types of materials to protect the high-risk body parts: shoulders, elbows, knees and hips. In particular, the development of breathable and waterproof membrane have made the textile suits much more popular. The temperature range in which they are perceived as convenient, is clearly wider than that of leather clothing. But how do they standup in terms of protection?

    To test an ADAC test drop and an elaborate system was developed to make such a comparison between textile and leather clothing possible. The goal of the test was not to filter out the worst or best textile-leather suit but rather deal with with the fundamental consideration of simpler and thus suits cheaper in comparison with higher quality and more expensive equipment. The price groups are "to 350 €," "to 900 €" and "" more than 1000 €. In addition, we tested a combination with a simple leather jeans from casual leather jacket and a "soft leather" made tour combination. The individual results are in the boxes on this and the following pages. Here's why the general findings of this dropping test which was aimed at a simple accident with an assumed severity of injury

    AIS 1 means (: minor injuries such as superficial wounds, muscle pain, etc.) reproduce.
    A "Low side" of slipping
    Motorcycle is typical. Exactly when accidents of this severity may show protective clothing, what they can - and
    she did well in the test. The range of results range of "looks as if little what was "up to a total loss. Had a human instead of the dummyman been in one of the three textile combinations tested, he would have in the two cheaper combos significant suffered injuries and even with the 1625-euro-Rukka ArmaXKombi would not fall without a likelihood of injuries.

    The findings of the ADAC test are particularly important because not only the upper to its abrasion resistance
    was tested but also the entire system from top material, protectors and - where applicable - thermal lining. Whether in a combination is there when the glissade is called for, makes a noticeable difference! And the location and size of the protectors (ADAC expert Müller: "The larger more effective! ") is an extremely important factor. These points apply to both textiles as well as leather suits. The latter generally fare much better: the self-certified leather suit with the lowest price, according to the test when with restrictions on use, the Swabians leather combination for 1320 € shakes the procedure formally off. Unexpectedly good results from a combination of simple leather jeans and a casual leather jacket by surprise. The soft leather combination less well protected. For all combinations a lack of good, large hip protectors threatens severe bruises in a relatively slight fall and in extreme cases, even fractures!

    Crucial - and this is the most important result of the ADAC tests - is that it is not only the resistance of the material, but the overall design of protective clothing. Good, as great protectors play a very important role, because they also seam stability increase and seams are always weak points ... But most important is to be aware of two wheels to the fundamental risk. In order to ensure ride and good - even perfectly possible - to slow down, safety training are important. The ADAC offers in approximately 60 locations. They protect at least as good as the most expensive "Armor" - the best accident is after all, still the one that was avoided.

    Page 1 Left Sidebar Column 1:
    FLM Textile: The combination of Firefox Polo brand FLM is made of 500 D outer material, is on the jacket fall-prone areas AIRTENA 600 D materials used on the pants HITENA (both 100% polyamide). There is also an anti-slip material on the buttocks. On the back there is one thin foam insert, on shoulders, elbows and knees CEProtektoren used. A hip protector is missing. After the test is the combination of a total loss. Humans should expect significant skin and soft tissue injuries due to the large hole in the buttocks and hips area. Also the jacket resulted in a tear.

    Page 1 Left Sidebar Column 2:
    FLM Leather: Leather (1.2 - 1.4 mm) is for the "Stream" combination of FLM is used. Stretch fabric made ​​of polyamide increases in some places the movement. On the back of the jacket is there is a thin foam lining. Shoulders, elbows and knees have CE protectors but hip protectors are missing. After the test is 310 € cheap leather suit - albeit for of a crack near the elbow protector with restrictions - is further usable. A person would likely not experience significant skin or soft tissue injuries but the lack of hip protectors would greatly increase the risk of severe bruises or fractures.

    Page 1 Right Sidebar Column 1:
    Stadler Textile: Jacket and pants are Cordura 500, on shoulders, elbows and knees Cordura comes in 2000 are used. The seat of the pants has leather trim on one. Given the severe damage in the test can no longer use the combination
    be. A sleeve has four small Holes, and there is a crack. The upper material of the pants keeps the Load was not; on the right buttock, hip and thigh area all tissue layers by ground that is too small protector ground off the side. In humans there would be due to the size of the hole significant skin and soft tissue injuries.

    Page 1 Right Sidebar Column 2:
    Dainese Leather: The "T. Haku," Combined Dainese is made ​​of cowhide, to stretch leather on the upper arm is
    and lower back. to increase mobility in some places stretch fabric made ​​of 100 percent nylon. No back protector, CE protectors at shoulders, elbows and knee. Thin protective padding on the hips. The combination may, under the test be used with limitations. A person most likely would not have significant skin or soft tissue injuries but due to the lack of full hip could expect increased likelihood of bruising or fractures.

    Page 2 Left Sidebar Column 1:
    rukka Textile: The relevance to the protection function is called Upper Armacor (85% polyamide, 15% aramid). to
    Protective equipment including CE certified cushion for back, shoulder, hip, elbows and knees. climate membrane is an XCR Gore-Tex 3-layer laminate. After the test is the combination ArmaX no longer usable. Another problem found by the particular the interface-related wrinkles emerged; Armacor by the local tissue was overloaded, which led to a distinct hole formation. A person would most likely have mild skin and soft tissue injuries.

    Page 2 Left Sidebar Column 2:
    SchwabenQuellen leather: The combination "Tomcat" is invariably made ​​of cowhide (1.4 - 1.6 mm) and Kevlar stretch panels. Included is a three-part closed cell polymer foam back protection and protectors for shoulder, hip, elbow and knee. After testing, this combination was fully ready for use, only their appearance had been affected by the grinding marks. Even in highly polluted areas of abrasion hazard was minimal. The upper material remained closed in all areas. Also the high-quality protectors used provide the maximum protection factor. By far the best result.

    Page 2 Right Sidebar Column 1:
    Held Leather: The Varano jacket and the Avolo pants are made from soft cowhide leather with TFL Cool-manufactured equipment. Additional protection is a thin-Rückenpolster (CE protector is optional) for shoulder, hip, elbow and CE knee protection pads are used. After the test is the only hero combined with severe restrictions more usable. The soft leather did not show the strength of other leathers. It is also the Creasing debt, they will be the average benefit. In humans there would be slight skin injuries as a consequence to the formation of holes in the buttocks area

    Page 2 Right Sidebar Column 2:
    POLO / Hero Leather: The leather jacket polo "Ratrace Custom" is made ​​of nappa leather, it has no protector but only foam rubber protection padding on shoulders and elbows. The hero-leather jeans "Tucson" is cowhide, with no other protection. After the test both the jacket and trousers could be used with restrictions. Both parts provide a fairly good result. In humans, the result would likely be no skin and soft tissue injuries but due to the lack of the hip protectors, severe bruises or breaks are more likely.
    #4
  5. tgeliot

    tgeliot Topher

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    Wow. That's a pretty severe indictment of textiles. Which is of course what I have, because I was ever so smart and chose high-vis textile over black leather.
    #5
  6. Wolfgang55

    Wolfgang55 Long timer

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    I look at what is used at "track days" Leather is king.

    Thanks for the translation for all to get at least a better idea for protection.

    Now someone should post a leather suit care system.

    My leather is dates back as far as 30+ years. I keep it clean & oiled so not to dry out & seperate....sorry for the semi-jacking of a very good thread.
    #6
  7. russellkt

    russellkt Adventurer

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    One thought I have is that even if the outer material is compromised it seems that the padding underneath would also have to be compromised before one would have skin injuries. Of course the garment would need to be replaced but unless you have spent the big bucks or plan on crashing often it should not be a problem. In my crash at ~40mph, this was the exact outcome, the material was destroyed but pads underneath meant no skin damage except in the knee where the pads/abrasion resistant rode too low.
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  8. Guzz

    Guzz Gutless wonder

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    Some things never change.

    Back in the 80's, I read a similar test in some motorcycle magazine. They kept it simple, no crash test dummies. They built an arm rig on the back of a pickup truck, where they covered a bag of dry mix concrete with material, and then attached it to the arm rig. They drove at different speeds (25 to 55 mph if I remember correctly), dropped the arm, then slowed down to simulate sliding to a stop.

    The bags of dry mix concrete gave a good indicator of when a hole wore through the material, as the could see the powder fly (literally).

    They tried leathers, jeans, and what textiles were available then.

    Leathers won, of course. None of the samples wore through. Leathers were thicker and stiffer than some of today's stuff.

    Textiles varied. Some held up better than others, but they all had holes in the end. Road rash was a inevitable.

    Jeans... They literally exploded on contact. The article said it sounded like a double barrel 12 gauge going off.

    The sad part is that I still just ride in jeans and a textile jacket. :huh
    #8
  9. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    Yes, but a big part of staying unhurt once the outer shell wears through is Luck. Are the pads in the right spot when you touch down? Are they going to stay in place as you slide along the tarmac?

    I still wear textiles, but I would not be surprised to get rash if I crashed above 30mph or so.
    #9
  10. Xeraux

    Xeraux Archvillain

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    I read somewhere that leathers lose a significant portion of their protective strength as they repeatedly get wet then dry. Add salt from sweat and road grime and you've got something that really accelerates this.

    What can you do to prevent this from happening?
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  11. David Shapiro

    David Shapiro Been here awhile

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    Underscores the use of Kevlar mesh, for me.

    David
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  12. JTT

    JTT Long timer

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    Or better yet, tested and proven HI-ART :wink:
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  13. Anders288

    Anders288 Adventurer

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    I'm going back to leather textile don't hold the armor in place [​IMG][​IMG]
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  14. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    How fast were you going? I am interested in how you thought the jacket fared.
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  15. Anders288

    Anders288 Adventurer

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    About 60 MPH
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  16. hpsVFR

    hpsVFR Hoosier Daddy

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    I don't see a severe indictment of textiles in what I read, though the translation doesn't make it easy to interpret their results. What I see is more-or-less what we already knew:

    1. It doesn't matter how strong or abrasion-resistant your material is if the seams pop apart when you hit the ground.

    2. padding is important

    3. train so that you can avoid the fall

    I think also that we pretty much knew that leather suits provide the best protection, provided that they're properly made and well cared-for. Leather suits don't necessarily provide some of the other benefits of textile gear (hi-viz has been hard to get, airflow management is more difficult, it's heavy, it doesn't handle wet/dry cycles very well, etc.).

    I'm also going to assume that these tests involved only new gear. Repeating the tests on leather and textiles which have seen thousands of miles of road use may change the results, due to aging of materials, etc. It may change the results in ways that further favor leather (due to the susceptibility of some textile materials to UV damage) or in ways that favor textiles (due to their superior stability in the face of wet/dry cycles and dirt/sweat)..

    In the end, selecting safety equipment is always going to be an exercise in compromise. The key is to be well-informed about the compromises we're making, so we can select the gear best suited to our particular situation.
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  17. tgeliot

    tgeliot Topher

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    I read somewhere that Kevlar is good at resisting penetration, hence its use in body armor, but not particularly good at resisting abrasion, and that you're better off with heavy Cordura.

    Sorry, I don't have a source for this at my fingertips.
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  18. hpsVFR

    hpsVFR Hoosier Daddy

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    Kevlar is good for bulletproof vests (and other things) because of it's high tensile strength. Kevlar's tensile strength is much higher than Cordura's. OTOH, Cordura stretches more than Kevlar (which can be an advantage in abrasion resistance).

    There's more to it than just this (both Kevlar and Cordura are families of fibers, each member of which has different properties), but your'e right: if you were to use a straight-weave, 100% Kevlar fabric versus a 100% straight-weave Cordura fabric for abrasion testing, the Cordura would almost certainly win handily.

    Quality Kevlar gear isn't 100% straight-weave Kevlar, and the weave (or knit, if it's a knit fabric) and blending fibers can substantially alter the performance of the protective system. That's the goal here, to assemble a protective system for riding. We're not doing ourselves any favors by concentrating on the data-sheet for one raw material of the system, and ignoring the other factors involved in modifying the properties of the system.
    #18
  19. Phil Y

    Phil Y Adventurer

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    Anders,

    What kind of jacket? Couldn't tell whether there were any straps around sleeve to help keep armor in place. Summary of your injuries, if any? Thanks for sharing.
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  20. Wuwei

    Wuwei Long timer

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    Not sure we're learning anything new here: leather is the best protection, various fabrics less so, proper armor is needed no matter how great the outer skin is at preventing abrasion. I think this can easily be deduced by looking at what racers wear. On the other hand, most of us don't leap out the back of trucks very often, and in the real world there are all sorts of various accidents that are not as severe. Most crashes are close to home at slow speeds. The HURT report said:

    "The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and
    the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph."
    #20