Lee Parks, ARC

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Heya.

    I'm FINALLY registering for Park's Advanced Riding Course. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the places that Parks himself teaches, so I have to settle for the next best thing, and ride to Poughkeepsie, NY to one of the satellite schools.

    They offer Level 1 and Level 2 course, one after another, Saturday / Sunday.

    My question is; Is it ok to take both courses like this, or would it be much better to have some time between Level 1 and Level 2, to practice the skills?

    I honestly would prefer to take both classes at the same time, but if anybody who took both levels, and from their personal experience would recommend taking some time to practice the skills from level 1 before going into level 2, I would heed to your advice.

    Thanks.
    #1
  2. Dan-M

    Dan-M Long timer

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    I took the level one and the corresponding "skills day" the next day.
    I found it good to do the skills day. At the end of the training day I was quite board and tired of the repetition. The skills day allows you to practice what you learned without critique from the instructor unless you ask for it. You can do it as much as you want for as long as you want and as fast as you want. Much easier to concentrate on your form this way.
    #2
  3. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    I don't really see the point of the skills day. If there is no critique from instructors, how is it different from basically renting their parking lot for training?

    I'm more interested if its any hindrance to take Level 2 class, right after Level 1.
    Their Level 2 class is only in May and September. So if I take Level 1 in May, I can either take Level 2, the following day, or wait until September.
    #3
  4. lmychajluk

    lmychajluk Long timer

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    Subscribed.

    I was thinking of taking the MSF advanced course again in April (especially if I get a new bike this spring), but I may do this as well. I was actually just looking at the Poughkeepsie courses this morning. Am I correct in that it's $375 for the 1-day Level 1 course? If that's the case, I may just need to take the Level I in May / June and then maybe Level II later (looks like Sept may be the only Level 2 on the schedule after May...).
    #4
  5. wiseblood

    wiseblood Hall Monitor

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    Say "Hi!" to Christine for me! :wave Just say "Seven Foot Tall Guy from NYC" -- she'll know who you're talking about. :D


    I've taken ARC1, but never ARC2. Is the difference more than just the suspension segment?


    TC-ARC is a lot of fun, and VERY useful to everyday riding!
    #5
  6. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    lmychajluk: Yup $375 for Level 1, one day.

    wiseblood: haha, will do. Just had a nice chat with her on the phone, as a matter of fact.

    Level 2 seems a bit more involved in addition to suspension setup.
    • Riding Psychology
    • Speed Shifting
    • Trail Braking into a Turn
    • Decreasing Arc Mid-Corner
    • Decreasing Radius Turns
    • Chassis Setup
    • Quick Stops
    • TC Solo

    Either way, I figure two days with instructors is still pretty good.

    Very excited.
    #6
  7. NtShiny

    NtShiny Been here awhile

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    TCARC Instructor here, you'll be tired at the end of the day and pissed that there are things you knew you can do better if you had just one more run....
    #7
  8. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    As long as I get the material and exercises that I can practice on my own after the course, I'm happy.
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  9. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice Long timer

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    Have fun! You will get it!

    When I took Level I there was no Level II

    I took Level I, practiced for a couple weeks and then did my first track day. All the things I learned in Level I were amazing, I later (A month later) came back and went through the instructor Class.

    Lee is doing some Classes in New York (June I think) he is also teaching a couple with me in Toronto in June and he is also teaching in Kentucky in March.

    Also keep in mind that every instructor for the Total Control program is personally trained by Lee Parks
    #9
  10. majlee_vmi

    majlee_vmi Tidewater 41009

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    Christine is an awesome instructor. You'll get a lot out of the class. When I took it, she and her ass't instructors helped out the skills drills folks on the other end of the range as well. Really worth the money and another whole level than MSF.

    She'll probably make an offer to some of you to go a Ducati track day as well.
    #10
  11. millsan1

    millsan1 IBA #49986

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    I took level 1 and 2 back to back. It was a tough two days. Given the chance, I would not do it again.

    I was an assistant instructor this past weekend with Christine. Great experience.

    I will be back with Christine on the 21st of this month, as an assistant again.

    I have to practice my presentation of the course materials to qualify for the instructor training I am going to in 2 weeks.

    If anyone would like to hear the presentation portion of the class, free, from a trainee, Lmk. There won't be any riding, but you will get the whole classroom portion.

    Central/Northern NJ.

    Pm me if interested.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    #11
  12. One Fat Roach

    One Fat Roach honey badger

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    I took the intermediate riders course twice and passed with flying colors. Only ridden for 3 seasons and I'd like to take the advanced class soon
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  13. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    I was initially disappointed in the Level 1 class. I left and felt lucky that I hadn't paid full price for the class. I felt like it was a very small step above what I was already doing. It wasn't bad, just not near my expectations.

    Then, I started riding. I found myself doing things different. I approached corners in a way that I hadn't before. I found myself really thinking differently. The more I rode, the more I realized how much I really learned at the class.

    I took the class almost 2 years ago, and I still feel like it was very valuable and changed me for the better. I would take it again in a heartbeat.

    As to your question though, I'm not sure I would take them on two consecutive days. I think the idea of a skills day is awesome. I just don't know about a second full day of new instruction would be as valuable as an open lot with coaches ready when you want them.
    #13
  14. Badjuju

    Badjuju Biker Billy

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    Good question. Prolly depends on 1) how much riding experience you have, 2) how aggressive a rider you are on the street, 3) how much you plan on pushing your limits during the course, and 4) what physical shape you're in.

    I took the L1/L2 course back-to-back in Lexington, KY, several weeks ago. I've been riding for 45+ years and do a lot of 'fast' riding in the twisties (15-20+ over, but not gonzo insane). I thought the first day was a little slow-paced, but definitely learned enough new skills and pushed myself hard enough to feel it in the shoulders and back at the end of the day. The L2 class was more difficult and challenging and definitely showed me where I was lacking in the more advanced skills, and I was beat at the end of the day.

    Some of the skills they teach on day 2 are more really more related to track/racing (i.e., clutchless upshifting) that aren't gonna necessarily translate to normal street riding--IMHO--unless you do a lot of street racing :huh but when it's put all together, it makes sense as a package. In summary, as long as you have a strong base of experience with a minimum of several years street/dirt riding, I think you'll be fine whether you choose to do it together or separately. If you're a relative newb, I'd do L1 first and get a few more seasons in before you take the L2.
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  15. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    I would beg to differ on this point. Clutchless upshifting is not a track-only skill. I use it daily and it makes for MUCH smoother upshifts. I didn't realize this was taught at L2 and I'm impressed they do. It is a good skill to have in the toolbox.
    #15
  16. Badjuju

    Badjuju Biker Billy

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    Cliffy: You may certainly offer your opinion in spite of it differing from mine. In fact, you don't even have to beg...

    I didn't say it wasn't a valuable skill, merely that--IMHO (you missed that part)--it isn't a skill I use on the street on a regular basis. While many things have trickled down from the race environment to the street--i.e., Quickshifters--I don't believe that is necessarily a good thing. You gotta remember that the Quickshift came to us from the track. Track bikes aren't expected to go 40-50,000 miles between tranny rebuilds. No matter whether you execute the shift perfectly with or without the Quickshifter, banging the gears together without removing some of the shock load on the driveline is gonna put more wear on the dogs, and probably done without consummate skill/finesse, you may eventually bend the shifter pawl.

    When you shift with the clutch disengaged, the only rotating weight that is putting stress on the gear dogs is the mass of the selected gear, gear shaft and clutch basket. When you don't use the clutch, you are shifting against the entire mass of the drivetrain, including chain, sprockets, rear wheel and tire. If you don't get it exactly right EVERY time, you're putting lots more stress on the gear dogs and they will eventually round off.

    I understand the need (desire?) to use clutchless upshifts for the dragstrip or track, but why for the street? I suppose it does put a slight amount of wear on the clutch, depending on how hard you bang your shifts, but it's WAY cheaper to replace the clutch plates than split your engine cases and replace bent shift forks and worn gear dogs. IMHO
    #16
  17. Akronorka

    Akronorka Adventurer

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    Really wish I could do this soon.
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  18. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    Agreed however, it really takes VERY little skill to figure out how to remove the shock load on the driveline. A quick flick of the wrist is all that is needed while your toe presses up to make this a lot smoother than a shift with the clutch. At least that has been my experience on every BMW boxer engine I've ridden and it doesn't work so well from first to second. Every gear after that and it is clearly less harsh on everything (your pillion included if you have one).

    I know there are varying opinions on this matter and I didn't mean to get this discussion sidetracked. I'm just impressed that Lee Parks is teaching this method as I find it very useful for smoother street riding.
    #18
  19. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice Long timer

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    The lexington Classes went well and the weather did not cooperate either! On the first day we delt with snow all day and on the second and second day we delt with cold temperatures!

    Classes will be back in the Lexington Area this summer and beyond!
    #19
  20. Badjuju

    Badjuju Biker Billy

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    David: In case I haven't already thanked you on LR forum, I had a blast at the class. For others thinking of taking the course, it's well worth the investment even if--or maybe especially if--you've been riding for years. Lots of bad habits 'learned' from riding the street and being lazy need to be unlearned.

    For those with an ego problem, it's a humbling experience to watch David (Outlaw Justice) grind a knee puck at 20 MPH on a vintage VMax with a trailer hitch attached. I was lucky enough to attend a class being taught not only by David, but by Lee himself. Lots of work and lots of fun! :clap
    #20