Loctite

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by lightsorce, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. obfuscation

    obfuscation n00b

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    Thanks for the info, guys. One hub was clearly loose, and both keyways are chewed up so the hubs were spinning on the shafts even though the nuts were way tight. It looks like the PO greased the tapers. I was curious about the white lead, something before my time. All I could find online was a reference to using it as thread locker. Part of my interest in the Jeep is the opportunity to learn about technology from another time.

    That 660 looks like a good product. I'll give it a try if it looks like there's too much wear on the parts for a solid fit.
  2. Taranis

    Taranis Been here awhile

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    Dirty,

    I'm making custom brake lines for a silly project. The stainless hose has a PVC outer sheath. I want to reuse the rubber locating bushings from stock lines, which are adhered on, so I'll have to cut them off, and maybe use a few wraps of old bicycle inner tube to build up some diameter.

    Is there an appropriate adhesive that will stick rubber to itself and to PVC?
  3. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    I'd be looking for another axle because that one will let you down sooner or later. Dana 44?

    Fighting a bad taper is just a losing battle. You should be able to find a decent used axle for not a lot of money.
  4. Taranis

    Taranis Been here awhile

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    Working on this some more. Thinking adhesive-lined heat shrink is probably my best bet for building up the diameter. Tried two layers of some thick heat shrink I had around and it brought the diameter of the hose right up to where the OE rubber locating bushings want it to be (matching OE rubber hose).

    Read a little on bonding to polyolefin, and it's apparently difficult due to the non-porous, chemically inert nature of the stuff. I'm going to buy the size of heat shrink I need at the local Fastenal.

    Is there a Loctite product I should have them order in to glue the rubber to it?

    ----------------
    Doing more googling:

    http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/Hard_to_Bond_Plastics756739.pdf

    This looks like just the stuff, but I can't get any out of Fastenal for less than $196.

    http://www.loctitehf.com/assets/tds/770-EN.pdf
  5. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Taranis- Polyolefins are a type of plastic glue nerds call a "low surface energy" plastic. Kitchen cutting boards are another an example of a low surface energy plastic.

    Low Surface Energy plastics tend to have a very complete molecular structure (translated: they're very smooth) with not a whole lot of dangling ends. Since they don't have an abundance of dangling ends, adhesives don't have much surface roughness to wet out against.

    There are a few things you can do to low surface energy plastics to make them rougher, but that's not the lesson here.

    We have some new polyolefin bonders, but they're going to be too rigid for use in this application, so that kills the thoughts of using a two part adhesive of some sort.

    I've been using that heat shrink lined with hot melt from Fastenal for years now and would come closer to using something like that before I'd consider using a polyolefin bonder. When shrunk, this stuff is moderately stiff, so confirm for yourself if you think it'll be too stiff for use before putting it on a brake line.

    Dirty
  6. wee-twin

    wee-twin Been here awhile

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    Relating to 248 quickstick, how important is the expiration date marked on the stick?
  7. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Officially, they're good for two years.

    Unofficially, if you can still swipe the stick across the threads, I imagine it'll still do what it is supposed to do.

    Dirty
  8. Kringb

    Kringb n00b

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    [FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dirty,

    Thanks for all the great info in this thread. I have already learned a lot just reading it through looking for something similar to my issue. I may have missed it but I don’t think it has been mentioned before.

    I have a leaking engine seal on my bmw. I have replaced it once but there is still a very slow leak. The seal is aluminum and is circular cap shaped with a teflon ring in the middle that seals around the alternator dog shaft. The oil leak is coming past the outer edge of the aluminum seal where it mates with the hole in the aluminum engine housing (the intermediate housing).

    The BMW engine seals come from the dealer with a pre-applied blue compound around the outer edge. I am assuming that this is an anaerobic sealant (though the dealer could not confirm this).

    I am trying to find something to do that will increase the sealing on the outer edge of the seal. At first I was thinking that I would add some sealant on top of the existing blue compound or to the inner surface of the mating hole :evil. But after reading this thread I am now wondering if it would be better to apply primer to the mating hole or maybe to clean off the existing blue and apply a fresh coat of sealant and primer.

    What would you recommend? Do you think adding anaerobic primer would do anything in this situation?[/FONT]
  9. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Kringb-

    This sorta sounds like a problem I had on my 640A.

    On this engine one cam shaft operates the intake and the exhaust rockers. The rockers operate off of rocker arm shafts. The end of the rocker arm shaft is exposed and relies on an O-Ring groove and O-Ring to keep the engine oil from leaking.

    Some time ago very very slight weep developed and was only noticeable because dust would collect in the immediate area.

    I wiped down the area with some contact cleaner and drew a circular bead of an oil-tolerant RTV around the weep area. 5k miles later, it's still fine.

    The use of an anaerobic primer is to speed the cure, promote the cure in temperatures below freezing, clean the surface, and activate inactive metal surfaces, and force the product to cure through larger gaps. In this case I imagine this seal is rubber over metal, and the rubber is intended to seal microscopic leak paths while the stamped metal is meant for shape. The case is likely aluminum. So.....yes, the use of a primer would be a good idea to try.

    Active metal ions coupled with the removal of air are the two components needed in order for an anaerobic product to work as designed.

    Remove the old seal, clean the ID of the hole in the case. Clean it again. Spray a light coating of 7649 Primer N in the mating surface of the hole in the case, let it evapoate. With a small cheapo metal handle brush from harbor freight apply a very thin film of 518, 515, or 510 Gasket Eliminator to the ID of the hole. Apply a thin film of Gasket Eliminator to the OD of the NEW seal. Drive the seal into place, and wipe off any squeezeout. Let it sit overnight and you'll be ace!

    Please be mindful of the very thin film applied to the ID of the hole in the case. If you go bananas on the film thickness here, you'll run the risk of plowing gasket eliminator into the engine as you drive the seal.

    I'd take the easy route and use the RTV listed below-it'll likely last for many years.

    I suggest using 598 Black High Performance RTV silicone, pn. 59830

    Dirty
  10. Kringb

    Kringb n00b

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    Thanks Dirty. Just to make sure I understand. The simple way would be to tap in the new seal as is and then add the 598 RTV around the outside. I like this solution.

    The more involved solution would be to prep the surface and use primer and gasket eliminator. On this solution I am not sure what you are suggesting to be done with the blue compound on the new seal. Are you thinking that this is just rubber and would be left in place, applying the gasket eliminator on top of it. Or would this need to be removed in this solution? One other note, they always say not to touch the blue goo on the new seal.

    Here is a picture of the blue compound. This picture is of a different seal (water pump) but the blue is the same.

    [​IMG]
  11. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    ^^^ You are finding out quick aren't you. Looks like I sent you to the right place and......good info for me also just in case.:clap
  12. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    I'd go the simple route, because I'mma lazy cracker.

    Now that I see the part, leave the blue stuff in place, smear a thin bead over the blue and a little bit more under that little metal lip and tap her into place within a minute. Then draw you a bead around the outside within another minute on mating surface and Bob's yer uncle.

    Dirty
  13. DockingPilot

    DockingPilot Hooked Up and Hard Over

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    Dirty,

    8mm bolt, internal engine application, med strength required, #243 ? And is there a need to use primer 1st or just brake or Electra clean the female threads then install ? They should never have to see daylight again with any luck.
    The 2 hex head bolts you see are the subject. The will be removed, threadlocker applied and reinstalled.
    [​IMG]
  14. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Clean/Degrease, let evaporate, then put 243 on the male threads of the hex head (apply enough to cover 3 threads/360*), torque to spec., and let sit overnight.

    243 works on non-ferrous metals and lightly oily threaded fasteners without the use of a primer.....unlike the old 243.

    Dirty
  15. DockingPilot

    DockingPilot Hooked Up and Hard Over

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    Thanks Dirty,

    *only 3 threads ? not the entire threaded shank or shaft ?
  16. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    If you really want to, but it's an overkill. Apply the threadlocker where the male and female threads actually come in contact with each other once the fastener is tight.

    Dirty
  17. DockingPilot

    DockingPilot Hooked Up and Hard Over

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    :thumb
    Appreciate your help.
  18. snakeroll

    snakeroll n00b

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    This was a good thread! I learned things that I didnt even know that I didnt know!
  19. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Wrong product, flat out. If you don't want to run the risk of leaks get yourself down to the local NAPA/Auto Shack parts place and buy a tube of sensor-safe RTV. You'll know it's the right product because right on the package it'll say "Sensor Safe" OR might say something to the effect of "Safe on O2 Sensors".

    Don't get anything labelled Red High Temp RTV. It's crap and your brake fluid will break the stuff down causing a leak in short order.

    Make the purchase then remove the cap and take a whiff. If you smell vinegar, it's not sensor safe. Vinegar smell tells you it won't stand up to oils fuels, or any petroleum based fluids. Return it. You should be safe with the purchase of a Black Sensor Safe RTV.

    Take a whiff of the product. You're looking for a clean smell. These are in the oxime cure family of RTVs and are safe on electrical components, fuels, oils, greases, and any other fluid found on a bike.

    What you have pictured is what is called an acetoxy cure RTV. As this RTV cures one of the by products is a flashing off of acetic acid gas which wreaks havoc on electrical components.

    I've covered acetoxy vs. oxime cure RTVs in great detail earlier in this thread, it shouldn't take too long to locate the information if you want to feed your head.

    Dirty
  20. wheels

    wheels Practicing to retire

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    Hi Dirty, I'm working on a late model Ducati air box. The cover that get's you access to the air filter has three screws that hold it in place. The allen bolts thread into a metal insert that is embedded in the plastic body. One of the inserts pulled out. I'm not sure what type of plastic the body is, it looks like ABS, but not sure. Question is what's the best adhesive to bond the metal insert to the plastic.

    Thanx
    Jim