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Discussion in 'Trials' started by OZbeemer, May 20, 2012.
Thats why I suggested the 225..............works really well, and suits about 95% of riders!
My favorite teacher was my '07 Beta 200.
The problem with the 225 is that GG doesnt make one. So if you want one, you need to eat the cost of a whole new top end - not cheap. On top of that you then need to add a FWW or its a stall fest. In fact, factory Kev from shirty's recommends mounting two of them! I think he rides Ex class with his.
I agree that many riders would be better off on a 200 to learn with - but the OP on a 250 will have the same power to weight ratio as the avg rider on the 200. The 250 is a great novice bike and readily available used or new.
Trouble is most people on here are suggesting 280/290/300 bikes are ideal for newcomers to trials! For a beginner anything other than a 125/200 seems to me a bit like choosing a bicycle with a frame size too big for the rider. Sure its possible to ride a bicycle if the frame is too big, but the correct size will be much much easier!
For the demand of trialsbikes with larger engine size for beginners due to weight of the rider or altitude the bike is used, Beta has now expecially for the US, developed the EVO 300 S, where S stands for soft. The engine is calmed down through carb and ignition and additional an extra flywheel is mounted too.
Maybe the right compromise in all the requirements?
Here in the UK, a lot of TS riders opt for the 300 Fantic............the fact that the 200 Fantic is a far far better bike seems to escape these people!
In the US - we got the Yamaha TY 350's when the 250's were much better bikes. I always thought the SWM 240's were alot better than the jumbo's as well.
I think in the perfect world - many folks would be better riders if they learned on a smaller bike. Its kind of like riding in the wet - if your technique isn't spot on, you'll find out quick - vs grippy rocks that are very forgiving and mask mistakes.
But - in real life - people just love riding big grippy rocks! Nothing wrong with it IMO cause lets face it - were just in it for the fun.
The Yamaha TY mono with 250 cc is much snappier, to the SWM, here I personal like the 320 best, the 240 is good but can't every time used as lazy as the 320 which has 280cc. The Jumbo is a big bore in trials a little bit lame in low rews in higher rews you get too much.
I'am very pleased with my 320 so far, pic from yesterday:
A SWM would also be a good bike for a beginner if he stick's with twinshock, you don't need always a Fantic, certainly are the engine a little bit different but they are as competitive as the red ones in my personal view.
Like it or not no matter how much you rant on here, a trials beginner is always going to get better results on a smaller capacity bike!
SWM can be found pretty easily here in the UK, and I would say that any TS bike is a good choice for a beginner, as you pretty much have to master the basics to ride one of these.
First off I never said anything about competing yet!!! I was looking for my entry into the sport. There are always two varying sides to the topics and usually this shit starts.
Yeah there are bikes that I would tell you to stay away from. My DRZ differed from my BMW G450x by only 50 cc's but is completely different type of bike. The 450's delivery of the HP is going to be different to a trials bike so I dont see the comparison to trials bikes when it comes to cc's
I also don't appreciate MY FUCKING THREAD getting filled with this shit. So thanks for that.
Not to kick a dead horse, but I think a larger displacement bike is better for a beginner. From what I have observed checking the morning categories (beginner-Intermediate), it takes a very good rider to keep a 125 running through the inevitable unexpected bumps. It's just so easy to put the fire out. The beginners, some of them new to motorcycles entirely, who run 250's seem to be much better off, as long as they stay on it, the bike can usually chug to the finish. If you can successfully manage the 450, you will not have an issue with a 280 or 300. If someone is having trouble with getting behind the bike and reving it out unexpectedly, put a block in the throttle.(TheGraydog did the same to my 3-wheeler) I rarely run past 1/2 throttle on my 300, big walls and trail being the exception. Up to that point, it is an incredibly mellow machine. And with its large flywheel and torque, it is very hard to kill the bike, and as mentioned, it is slower reving than many of the smaller machines. Now that I think about it, I would contend that my 300 is more forgiving to an inexpert rider than the smaller bikes Ive ridden.
Altitude is a consideration. At 7000 ft the 300 is probably more equivalent to a 250 or 280. We ride as high as 13000 at the Ute cup. Now the 300 is probably equivalent to a 125... :huh
If you have any intention of riding any trail, the 300 is a must for heavier riders, having ridden my 300 and a couple of 280s quite a bit, I much prefer the 300. It isn't as quick, but it will pull 6th at altitude, which the 280 was not keen on. I don't know if TheGraydog has the same issue, but I have 30lbs on him, and you have another 50 on me.
"Using the info' supplied in your post ;I wouldn't recommend a 280 to anyone who is starting off in the sport ,they can bite and become tiring very quickly,I think it's a real experts bike..
I recall starting off with a new 250 Gas Gas that me and my brother went 1/2s on,it was great to blat around with on the drive but when we took it off road and marked out a course, it ate 2 new rear mud-guards,we couldn't keep the front end down :dunce:It put us right off the sport...Too much too soon.
You state your weight as 45 Kg so I reckon a 125 should fit the bill nicely(IMHO).
I rode one recently and it was a hoot, it teaches you good clutch/power technique (something else I'm lacking )"
Above copied and pasted from a UK forum.............posted in reply to female prospective trials rider, but would apply equally to any newcomer.
You guys worry too much. These low strung 2 stroke motors are so much more docile than say a motocross bike I hardly consider even a 300 cc bike too much for someone his size and weight. You will enjoy the hell out of any modern trials bike. Just find one in good shape for a good price and ride it!
We're not talking a CR500 here.
As a brand new trials rider who just picked up a 300pro I'll chime in. For me it's difficult to start but you have 100lb on me so you should be fine. I did a day at trials training center on mine yesterday, learned a ton and never found the extra power to be an issue. You might be able to get away with some stuff with more power but really who cares.
Sure maybe starting on a smaller bike would be better but as someone not planning on competing seriously if at all this one popped up for the right price so I jumped on it. I'm very happy with it and the extra 125cc will come in handy for trail duty.
Buy what you want and enjoy it.
I'm 6'2" amd 218 and recently bought a cheap trials bike (and then bought another I could get parts for). Both were 280s. I also ride big 4-strokes and found both of the 280s much easier to manage and neither seemed to me to have too much power. I can't say the same about the Husky TC450 I used to ride - a little too much throttle with it and I could get into big trouble quickly. I ride a bit in the backyard with my two sons - one on an XR70 and one on a TTR125.
My observations from my experiences being new to trials: 1) try to find a bike that doesn't need lots of parts/work - what seems cheap up front may not end up that way since trials bike parts are expensive, 2) Make sure whatever bike you buy is still supported with factory parts, 3) Get one soon because they are a lot of fun.
Sounds like I will try to get to a local event and see if I can talk to a few members and see if there are some for sale. I am having a tough time finding something in an entry level price range. 1500-2000.
I shall keep looking and see If I can find something!! thanks
wittrider I may try to get to black river for the competition, although its the same weekend as the vintage bikes at Road America. leaning more towards the trials event though.
Wow there's a lot of debate about engine size!
Wouldn't Rider Size matter too? and Altitude? I'm thinking about getting a Trials bike instead of getting another Dirt Bike. I'm a big guy 6'1" 255 (hopefully going down), and live at 5000' would be riding probably more at 6-8K. I know my last dirt bike a KTM 525 had a power loss at 8,000' compared to at sea level.
Yes altitude makes a big difference. High altitudes are a good place to use the larger displacement Trials bikes.
After reading a few of these posts I think that the experienced riders that are being asked for advice are assuming that the prospective buyer wants to use the bike for what it was built for, Trials competition. That, apparently is frequently not the case. Those not wanting to learn, and compete in trials competition needen't worry about having too much power, however those wanting to learn the bike handling skills that are what trials is about, will in many cases be handicapping themselves with overly responsive machines.
Many, many, times I've seen a novice rider struggling to control the bike he's just bought, usually last years model that he bought from one of the local pros. Many times that rider never comes to another event.
By the way many newer 2 strokes have higher compression heads available that will mitigate the power losses at high altitudes.