Lots of assembly required.....

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by CosentinoEngineering, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    >>I've been using a Racepak IQ3 on my drag boat

    That's a pretty good looking dash for a low price. I wonder if it does general CAN communications.

    I was reading in some trade mag on how one of the powerboat sanctioning bodies mandates the use of prop torque sensors to police the Hp rules. The teams found that with the new data they could do setup a lot better and got big performance increases.


    Chris
    http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/
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  2. jphii

    jphii OK, now what?

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    It will interface with several different ECUs. Motec, Vipek, Haltech, etc.... I believe about 12 different ones. As for just hooking it up to a CANBUS system, I'm not sure. I run a Brucato PCU, and they have not finished the interface for it yet.

    When I went tothe IQ3 it was a data overload situation. Now I don't see how I ever won a race before I had it.
  3. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    Looking back at the front suspension post it will be hard to top for the rear suspension! I'll give it a go.

    I've discussed the squat and idler issues in a previous post but how I got there was never gone over. The first choice to be made is how to drive the rear wheel, chain, belt, or shaft. It may seem obvious to choose chain for a race bike but since I was going this deep with a new design there was no sense cutting the investigation short. One major biasing factor is the requirement for an easily changeable final drive ratio heavily favors the chain drive. Belts can be made to work in this situation but the needed width to accommodate the engine torque makes it a larger overall solution than a chain which is not good for a compact racebike design. Shaft/gears can be more efficient compared to the the wide range of chain tensions experienced through suspension travel but then you have some heavy steel at the wheel center which is not optimum for suspension behavior and having ratio changes is expensive and time consuming. Without some added complication a shaft drive also removes the ability to tweak wheelbase (and therefore front and rear tire loading) though chain length and sprocket juggling.

    It didn't take too much effort to settle on chain drive. There's no sense in using something different just to be different, especially if it has drawbacks.

    There was also the question on whether to use a single swingarm or a multi-arm setup similar to the front end. this has been tried in the past on various racebikes, especially vintage Moto-Guzzi's. The idea here would be to replicate the geometry of the front wheel movement on the rear wheel. It would add complexity but would it be worth it? I thought not as since the rear wheel does no steering the influence of its movement on the rest of the chassis is minor compared to the front. Also, since the swingarm is nearly 24" long its angular movement is small for a given wheel displacement which means its changing affect on behavior is also small.

    The end result is that aside from the idler sprockets for chain load redirection the swingarm itself is boringly conventional. It is a weldment of billet and sheet material with some internal bracing.

    [​IMG]

    The swingarm uses a style of shock mounting similar to Honda's Unit Pro-Link suspension that mnounts the top of the shock to the top of the swingarm. When Honda came out with the design a few years ago they had all the marketing BS about how it eliminated the 'bad' forces from being transmitted to the frame. What BS! Honda had it all wrong. Like man, forces are neither inherently bad not good, its what you do with them that counts. The Unit Pro Link was used for packaging and marketing reasons. I use a similar design only for packaging reasons. I would have to run a main chassis member to that area to mount the top of the shock, instead in can incorporate it into an area that already is surrounded by metal, the only need is for some reinforcement. One of the drawbacks of the V4 design is that the swingarm pivot area gets crowded due to the rear cylinder and its exhaust tubing. Not having to have a shock mount opens things up a bit for easier design and also disassembly and maintenance.

    [​IMG]

    Since there will be a lot of forming and aluminum welding, I'm farming this work out to an aluminum welding specialist, Kolb Machine. Scott is another motorcycle-obsessed fabricator currently in late stage full streamliner LSRitis. He is documenting progress here. Its a really interesting project around going as fast as possible with a 125cc single at the Bonneville Salt Flats. He's currently at 147mph and next year will make a serious jump with a new engine.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, Scott is an excellent fabricator and will convert a bunch of CNC parts with a bunch of lasercut sheet into a super accurate work of art. That also happens to be a motorcycle rear swinging arm.

    [​IMG]

    The swingarm billet parts are machined from 6061-T6 material which is strong and decently hard. All of the sheet is 6061-T0 material which is weak and soft. I chose the T0 condition for the thin material so that we would form the sheet easily and not tear it during the bending operations. Use of the T0 material will require the use of a substantial welding fixture which will do double duty as a heat treatment fixture. Using a steel for the fixture will allow it to retain strength at the medium temperatures needed for heat treating alumium. We'll make accurate mounts for the swingarm, wheel axle, and shock mounts to bolt the billet components to then 'drape' the sheet over them and weld in the appropriate locations. Sounds simple and is anything but! Then the entire assembly will be sent to a heat treatment facility which will bring all the aluminum back to a T6 temper, restoring strength and hardness to a useable level. Since the fixture is steel (and will have already been thermally cycled) it will hold the aluminum parts in alignment so that when they cool they take a 'set' in perfect alignment. Or at least within a few thousandths of an inch.

    Hopefully we'll get 2 swingarms out of this set of stock and sheet.

    Next up is the frame. Hope to post it soon.


    Chris
    http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/
    Chip in and help!
  4. Flanny

    Flanny Flanny-it-up!

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    Unbelievable!

    I'd love to see that thing come to life!!!

    Hey Chris - how's the fundraising drive going?
  5. tex_downey

    tex_downey Been here awhile

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    :ear

    cant wait.
  6. Lambo

    Lambo Been here awhile

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    Awesome:clap:clap

    So what are you doing to to make sure that the 6061 will not want to crack in use?

    Thanks,
  7. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    Fanny, fundraising is moving along, nearing the $1000 mark and will send the 2 uppers out for cylinder coating once I get there.

    Thanks to all from this list that have donated. The first shirt order should be arriving soon so I'll post some pictures and mail out a bunch of packages.


    Chris
    http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/
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  8. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    Lambo,

    The only way I know to prevent cracking in use of any part is proper design and fabrication. Robust weld joints with enough linear weld is a big part. Base material is 6061. The billet parts are in T6 condition and all the sheet is in T0 condition. All inner bend radii will be 1.5 material thickness or greater. Welding will be done by an expert then it will be heat treated in a fixture back to T6 condition.

    I see you have experience in the material failure area so am curious to hear your take on the matter.


    Chris
    http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/
    Chip in and help!
  9. rainmaker8

    rainmaker8 Been here awhile

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    I distinctly remember other members of the team...
    Look at those handsome dudes!

    blast from the past.

    Turu
    #746

    Attached Files:

  10. sakurama

    sakurama on an endless build

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    Turu! The missing member!

    Ah, those were the pre kid days when life was simple and sleep was something that lasted an uninterupted 7-8 hours. I miss those days.

    Gregor
  11. wiseblood

    wiseblood Hall Monitor

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    :lurk

    Looks great!
  12. Zoef zoef

    Zoef zoef Been here awhile

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    May I add the following:
    Cracking can also be caused by too quick variation in stiffness, without any proper gradual transformation. Ie take a 4 x 4 beam, and weld a 1 x 1 on to it. The sudden change in stiffness is bound to give problems/cracking. Add a gradual transition and cracking is usually omitted (except if overloaded of course). Welds can also be a problem, if they are under or oversized with respect to the plate thickness. Cold treated aluminium can also be tricky, as the heat of the welding can result in significant loss of strength. Be careful with cutting/treating plate edges, as this can also be a starting point for cracks. Lastly, plate should only have in plane loads, ie no bending. In general, bending of single items should be avoided as much as possible, try to design cleanly -> only tension/compression in single members.
    Success.
  13. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Hi Chris, great thread and thanks for sharing :clap Beautifull looking bike and job you are doing there I wish I had your skills.
    Couple of questions: would there be anyadvantage in designing the rear swing arm and gearbox housing with the pivot point and front sprocket with the same centre eliminating chain tension issues?
    Also I see by the cad drawing that the steering damper is on top of the steering head handle bar pivot point would it be better connected directly to the steering spider / front legs.
    Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing. I wish I was a millionaire and could get involved in this sort of thing. It was a great lose when John Britten departed. I spend time studying his bike when ever I am at the Museum in Wellington. It too is a work of art.
    Good Luck WR
  14. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

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    i gotta tell ya'..... i just checked out your blog, i'm gonna have to leave here and go there for awhile!!!... a long while!........this is some of the most interesting stuff i've read on the computer for quite awhile..... and i was patting myself on the back for figuring out how to cut some SS sheet metal on the table of my BP to make a headlight bracket for my ZRX..... i just hope you're gonna get some patents on this stuff, cause' that front end looks pretty cool....
  15. MapMaster

    MapMaster Human Compass

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    Damn! Another in-progress thread that has cost me a decent night's sleep and left me coping with my inner 5yr old child throwing a temper tantrum because it's not finished yet ("I wanna know how it ends NOW!") :D
    Yes, I hate serials, "To be continued ..." were always dread words growing up.
    No way I'm gonna start on the blog (at least not this morning).

    Awesome job! :clap
    I wish you much success and more frequent updates.

    Cheers,
    Greg
  16. RecycledRS

    RecycledRS Along for the ride

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    Any progress worth posting? Its cold, snowy and I can't ride so need a fix bad.
  17. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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  18. FloridaSteve

    FloridaSteve Long timer

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    I'm pretty sure he has a day job. Probably something came up.
  19. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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  20. Dash2

    Dash2 Always Learning

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    done.