M 102 S sidecar install

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Dirtyairhead, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    It seems to me that cranking that rear strut will put everything in a bind. :hmmmmm
    Look at FR700's post above, trim adjustment is usually achieved by raising or lowering the sidecar wheel/swing arm. This allows the bike to lean in or out to compensate for the road crown, as you have done "by straddling the center of road".
    #41
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  2. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    Vetter sidecars had a 3 point arrangement for the struts with the bottom pair acting as a large hinge to the bike and the upper rear being a linear actuator to give a degree of tilt.
    I really can't see your adjustable upper rear strut making any adjustability possible without the upper front echoing it. And both lowers changed to allow a hinge movement there.
    I'm sure you're on it . Carry on.
    #42
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  3. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

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    Apologize for going off topic but, not being an airhead guy, that green hose forward of the right cylinder head--whazzat?
    #43
  4. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    20170926_135717.jpg Yes, turn one, makes sense to release the binding on the other. I might just use it during the setup. I work alone and jigs are handy and more patient than a helper. Still on topic, The hydraulic hose is temporarily replacing the original oil cooler eventually a larger version for the expected load.
    #44
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  5. draperg1

    draperg1 PapaBear

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    #45
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  6. draperg1

    draperg1 PapaBear

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    See above info, my comment is in the copy portion of post. Have one arm in a sling :(
    #46
  7. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    I have been chasing angles and just discovered some previously unnoticed movement in the front lower joint. Back to original hardware and start over. My logic for 3 demintonal rigging is to know the targets, and start at the stationary point. This being the front lower mount holding fast. Even though the test drives are short, I can see now that I have made a good decision to buy a sidecar. I should have another test drive report tomorrow.
    #47
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  8. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    A couple of opinions and nothing more.

    Based on my experience with my own rig, I have it set up for a loaded bike & sidecar, in other words both me & my wife are the weight. When I ride solo with an empty sidecar I put 30 lbs water ballast, just enough to take the empty bounce out of the sidecar. With either load it will go down the highway at legal speeds with no pulling and I can take one hand off the handlebars to adjust glasses, switch to reserve etc. Rig is very stable at speed and I don't ( currently ) have a steering damper so I get some slow speed wobble around 20-25 mph in some situations. So I think were I'm going with this, is set the car up for the max load you are going to carry on both the bike & sidecar, level the car sideways & front to back, and then adjust the lean out to get you in the right spot, then check your toe in, and adjust both as necessary. Your sidecar manufacturer may have given you some suggestions as to a starting point on these settings.

    Oil cooler. You will likely be just as well served by keeping the stock oil cooler, not sure if it is thermostat controlled on the GS or not, but better if it is, if you ride in a cooler climate. The oil cooler you are showing is much too big for the engine and it will hurt the engines ability to get up to temperature. You can always go to a syn oil, to get you better high temp protection if that is a problem or concern. If you never had oil temp problems when you were pulling the trailer, the sidecar isn't going to change things that much and maybe you won't need the trailer, as you could put everything your carried in the trailer into the sidecar.

    Rear end gearing. Not sure if your bike is the R80 or R100, but use the R80, 37/11 gearing, if you don't have it already. Makes a big difference and the only way to go with the setup you are building. I run the 37/11 gears in my R100Rt. Better for low speeds and even highway speeds as the rig isn't bothered as much by headwinds and hills. That gearing will increase your RPM about 400, at highway cruising speeds ie: 60 mph.

    Looking forward to seeing the final product.
    #48
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  9. Sidewise

    Sidewise Been here awhile

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    Why such a big oil cooler? They only cool when you are moving unless you put a fan to it. That volume of oil contained in that radiator without a restriction in the line may take too much oil from your bearings.
    #49
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  10. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    The original cooler broke during removal. This one was new on the shelf. Might use a slightly smaller one. Was thinking about a fan. If the cooler is set with the connections to the top, no oil drains from the cooler back into the sump. Kinda like a remote oil tank on a Britt bike. In effect, more volume of oil and same useful amount for the bearing. Just need a extra drain for oil change.
    #50
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  11. draperg1

    draperg1 PapaBear

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    I also run a 37/11 on my r11/hannigan rig and Ridn3 runs the same on his 1150rt/escort rig. We both like the results. I actually used the stock 33/11 gearset from the r11 and had it built into the final drive of my lt rig. With a chair lower is better!
    #51
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  12. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    The manual said 34/11. I have owned Rt, R90, R60, etc this R100gs seems to be of a low gear ratio, seems way different from the Rt. I agree with you that lower gearing is better but I will use what I have for now. It climbs the steep hill to home with 3 bags of corn in the car. Went to Alaska Pulling a 400 lb pop up camper with ease. Lower chair is good for the pavement but I live off road and lots of clearance allows rocks to clear as the car goes over it. Think of roads and trails often 1car wide or less than 2 cars wide as my normal daily use. These slow speed drives might actually require a fan assist oil cooler and a protective canvas cover for the cool times. Low speed driving is the plan. I'm an Airhead trying to stay simple, cheap, and get my wife back into motorcycles without any issues of falling over.
    I think I will narrow the sidecar frame 4 in to fit the tub closer and bring the track down to 46 in. More tomorrow.
    #52
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  13. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®

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    A trailer is a completely different animal in regards to how much power it will zap.
    #53
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  14. warkshop

    warkshop uncbob

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    On the older airheads the ratio was stamped in casing,,,,,you may be able to find and to read it. Pulling a hack and a 400 pound trailer you might need R65 gearing. Like Guzzis, Airheads like to rev,,,they sure don't like to lug, especially under mass loading.
    #54
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  15. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    I agree that the sidecar will block huge amount of wind. The trailer will be trimmed down to just a sleeper and I will use the sidecar to carry stuff. If I could sleep in the sidecar, I would sell the trailer. Maybe a sleeper sidecar tub is in my future. The gearing on the older airheads I could see stamped on the housing. No stamp on my 92gs, I looked it up in the original owners manual. 34/11. I am not in love with 5th gear. The higher geared rear end can be compensated for with using a variety of lower transmission gears except for first gear.
    #55
  16. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Yes a friend of mine has the R100GS and it is geared 34/11. The 95 R100RT is geared 33/11. Seeing as your use is more to the slower stuff, you would really appreciate the 37/11 gears. They allow you to just crawl along in 1st and in 5th. it gives the bike some grunt that it doesn't have with the stock gearing. Well worth the switch, all you need is the gasket ( or make your own ), so keep your eye open for a set of 37/11 gears for your rig. That rear end was used in the mono R80's.

    Oil cooler. You could go slightly larger than stock which would help your cause, maybe some of the smaller tranny coolers might work. Look at the coolers on a R1100R, they had two of them, one for each side, something like that might work as well and should be cheap on the after market. The police model even had a fan on one of the oil coolers. Also the R1100S had a good size single oil cooler, very similar in shape etc to the one you originally had or maybe an airhead one, not sure if they made them any bigger on the RT or RS. Also could put a different oil pan on the bike, ( larger ) to increases the oil capacity, works the same as an oil cooler. Lots of options for not a lot of cash. If you stay with the BMW stuff, the fittings are likely to work.

    When you set up your rig, ( toe in & lean ) have your wife sit in the car, you on the bike and use a strap to compress the rear end of the bike, so that the suspension stays in place. She can get out of the car if she wants, but do your measurements with the rear suspension compressed. It gives you a much more accurate place to start from. Also when you tighten everything down, put some small white cross marks on any of the joints that can turn/move. This will let you see if something is moving, and gives you a reference point to put everything back to your start point.
    #56
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  17. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    Hi cm2. I agree with you except for the deep oil pan. Without a cooler, more capacity is just more hot oil. Been there before. Without ducting or a fan, ambient cooling is almost nonexistent. I have a used cab heater boxed with a fan and switch. I'm cheap and stubborn but will spend money when I have to. A new transmission cooler kit with a thermostat could be under the Christmas tree. I will improvise through this fall as needed. Safety on the other hand is top of the priority list. Sidecar has brakes, motorcycle front brakes are upgraded, and the trailer has electric brakes. I cut the frame in half removed 4in of width, will remove the center stand, add another lower brace and battery box brace. Starting over is easy since the tools are still in place. It's time to get the trailer hitch off and sold. I'll casually start looking for a 37/ 11 set of gears or complete rear pig.
    #57
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  18. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    [​IMG]

    This is a pic from Martin's thread showing his mount setup. It looks like he's got it figured out.
    Check out Martin's VTR 1000 Adventure Sidecar Build.

    I realize your frame is different. I do like Martin's lower mounts.
    #58
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  19. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Here is another way to go with oil coolers. Might give you some ideas. HD softails 08 versions used something similar. This is from a fellow in Holland who uses them on his airhead gs.

    [​IMG]
    #59
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  20. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Vintage

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    Trusses are strong, I don't know how to get to his link but here is not a place to try to teach me computing. I have been working with what came with the sidecar and what ever I can repurpose from the shelf , if I were building from scratch......well.....the ubolt twisted off so I cut up a truck tie down hook and welded a pair of small bolts to make the mating pillow block with 8.8 through bolts. I take joy in repurchased materials. think it's ready to put the bike in place again. 20170930_130239.jpg 20170930_125657.jpg 20170930_125220.jpg
    #60