M 102 S sidecar install

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Dirtyairhead, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    Trivia, the only place in my garage with a level floor has a true square pattern cut into the surface. This makes for a convenient area for layout measurements except the floor slopes away from the side stand. That is why I don't measure off the floor opposite of the sidecar.
    #61
  2. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    If I put a thermostat in the oil system, wouldn't that compensate for the cooler being reasonably oversized?
    #62
  3. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    I tried to use the front mount as shown. Just don't like so many joints. Played with it up and down this way and that. I'm going to use the clam and ball. Better rear clamp, original rear strut. New demintons 46in track, 9in lead, about 3/4in lean out at the bars. Test drive with full expected load. On true flat it pulls to the right slightly. Dirt road trail it pulls down hill. On good pavement in a straight line and 2 percent slope to the shoulder it pulls to the right more than true flat pavement. I will put the 37/11 gears higher on the priority list. I haven't even tried to get home the hard way. 20170930_125220.jpg 20170930_130253.jpg

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    #63
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  4. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    More pics 20170930_184118.jpg 20170930_184209.jpg

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    #64
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  5. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    Took another test drive after some adjustments. Still pulls down hill, I can see the benefits of electric trim on the sidecar wheel. On good level pavement it steers neutral. A bit of wobble might require a steering damper. Bottom end of first gear is a bit faster than I thought. On two wheels I'm passing through the gears or really getting on it in sand. The 37/11 gears are on the list. These pictures are with expected load in the sidecar and a half tank of gas but not bound down to my weight. Still have to remove the trailer hitch, side stand and center stand , add a couple braces then add length to the adjustable struts to lessen the exposed threads. I'm thinking of adding a horizontal diagonal strut to the lower rear mount. Just getting started on the trailer hitch. 20171001_184914.jpg 20171001_184849.jpg

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    #65
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  6. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Looking good. Your last picture has the bike and sidecar looking about right with no real load. I don't think you can ever make the mounts too strong.

    A couple of thoughts. You might want to move the rear lower mount further back if you can and try to keep that one at 90 degrees to the bike. The original front mount ( that allowed you to adjust the car height up & down, & wheel lead ) is commonly found as the rear attachment mount on some sidecars ( its that way on mine ) and the upper & lower mounts tend to share the same mounting area. If you are still having problems in this area, might be something to look at.

    Pulling is just a matter of fine tuning lean out & toe in. I have head shake on mine at around 20 - 25 mph in some conditions, I have no damper, and rig tracks straight on the highway. I am considering putting a damper on the rig, but then it will steer harder, especially at slow speeds, everything is a trade off with sidecars. With you wanting to do more off road stuff, I would think a VW damper or something similar would work fine.
    #66
  7. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    A good question but I don't know the answer. My concern would be with a larger amount of oil being released at a much lower temperature. Oil coolers have to remain full all the time, otherwise you would get air into the system and in fact BMW doesn't recommend draining the oil cooler at oil change time, for just this reason. Maybe a problem I don't know.

    On the stock bike's cooler you likely have about 200-250 cc of oil that becomes available once the thermostat starts to open, and on the GS models I don't think they had thermostats as they were flowing oil all the time. So the above is not a problem. Oil temps need to be in the 250 degree range for everything to work and for the condensation etc to be burned off. If it was me I would stick with the standard sized oil cooler until I could actually get to run the bike under the conditions I'm going to use it and see what happens with oil temps. If you needed more cooling you could easily put in a cooler, like the ones in the picture I posted, in series. Too cold is as bad as too hot. A fine line to travel.
    #67
  8. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    Yes I agree to both, it's getting cooler now and the airhead will be fine without a cooler for the rest of the fall if I pay attention. Lots of room for improvement adjustments fussing..... Thank you all for your help. John
    #68
  9. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Correction on above post. The rear lower mount on my set up is in the same location as your rear upper mount is, and my rear upper mount is in a similar location as your rear lower mount. Confusing I know. On my rig, the two rear mounts attachment points are closer together than in yours. Thought I should clarify.
    #69
  10. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    20170623_140717.jpg Yep, I would rather have the two closer together on the car's frame. The horizontal diagonal brace is planned to be from the car's lower rear strut bike side connection point on the same plane to the upper rear struts lower car frame mounting point. It will provide more forward to aft strength. You haven't confused me yet, remember that I said we think alike. How about a picture looking down from the driver's seat. I have the rig set up good enough for the fall colors. The firewood isn't done yet, back to the woods for me. As things progress, I will add pictures. I was in your area this summer. Rode the Yellow Head end to end. Stopped by Alberta cycle for a new rear tire. In and out in 1 1/2 hours without a reservation.
    #70
  11. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    I'll take some photos and post them. Yes single sided swing arm much easier to get rear wheel off. So with the sidecar rig are you going to run mc tires on the bike or go to a K block type or whatever? Hope you had a good trip and if you are ever back up in this part of the world make sure you do the Logan Pass/Cowboy trial. I live in Lethbridge, southern part of Alberta, about 1 hour north of the Montana border.
    #71
  12. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    I had A great time and big deal on the bucket list.
    I'm hoping to get longer wear and cheaper darkside tires for the 17 inch driving wheel. Any suggestions? Front 21 inch and 19 inch sidecar tires will likely be limited to mc tires. That's OK since those 2 last a long time.
    #72
  13. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Some go so far as to spoke the GS wheels to a car type rim for the rear. Front can also be done but clearance can be a problem and a lot have just stayed with the motorcycle tire for the front. If you can get the front and back the same size ie:18" for example it makes life easier, rig set up etc. Older EML's ( with the dual shock airheads ) built there own wheels and I believe they have 15" car tire rubber on them, not really applicable for your application, but anything is doable if your put enough money into it.

    My RT has 18" wheels front and back and most of my stuff is highway related so I've just stayed with the K Block 400x18" so far. Bike's front end has a leading link, and about the biggest I can fit without rubbing somewhere is a 100/110 or the 400 series, front fender has been raised slightly to fit the 400 series. The K blocks are a 100 tire ( tall ) so it affects the speedo ( BMW speedos are notoriously inaccurate anyways ) and it raises your gearing slightly. I've never seen a conversion formulae to figure out how much of a change between a 90-100 tire or even going the other way to a 70 tire. I'm sure there is something out there.

    Urals tires are 19", so you might find something that way. You might want to start a new thread and just ask the tire question on its own. You could also go to http://www.sidecar.com and see if you can find some info. Some also make an addapter that you can mount a car rim to the motorcycle wheel. I think Claude or DMC might be able to provide info on some of this stuff.

    Your trailer is going to be much harder on rear tires than the sidecar will be on its own. I'm not sure if the wear will get any worse with the addition of the sidecar, but it likely will. Rear car tires if you can make them work for your application are certainly a better option for the rear. Front, some run car tires and some a larger m/c tire. A friend of mine has both an older EML rig with car tires ( front & back ) and a 1200 GS rig with car tire on the rear and he just took the car tire off the front and put a m/c tire on. He likes the m/c tire on the front , but says it digs in more in the turns, so it does make a difference.
    #73
  14. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    See the new thread in the garage. John
    #74
  15. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    _DSF1898.JPG _DSF1899.JPG _DSF1900.JPG _DSF1904.JPG As you requested here are a few photos. This car was put together by DMC, probably 10-12 years ago. I'm not the original owner. Ignore the steering damper as I'm just playing with that & its location. Haven't had a chance to try it out, snow up here last couple of days, so will have to wait until it warms up a bit.
    #75
  16. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    And the last one. At least they will give you an idea. There is a sub frame that is tied into the bike frame on the left lower side of the bike ( where the center stand used to be and one of the motor mounts ) and the front upper mount attaches to this same sub frame and it is also attached to the right frame rail up towards the lower tree, and then the sub frame is attached to the lower right of the bike, behind the drivers right peg. The rear upper mount uses the top shock bolt location and then both sides of the bikes rear sub frame are bolted together just above the battery. ( You have to remove this piece to get the batter out - easy to do ) and they basically just used the mounting points where the rear sub frame is mounted to the main bike frame. I can take some more pictures if you want.

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    #76
  17. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    Thanks but I can't view them
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  18. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Not sure why as they show up fine on this topic at my end. I edited the pictures and attached them as thumbnails. Let me know if that works.
    #78
  19. Dirtyairhead

    Dirtyairhead Adventurer

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    Nice pics. Don't know why but tonight your pictures are up and easy to see. Nice simple clean install. I have enough parts to copy your lower rear setup.......
    Thanks John
    #79
  20. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    Your welcome. The lower rear set controls the wheel lead and the level of the sidecar. It can pivot up or down which levels the sidecar front to back and side to side with the load or the way you want the car set up with the way you are going to use the car in most cases. It then can be moved in or out to set track width or toe in/out in conjunction with the lower front mount. I put some white marks on these # 3 picture so I can readily check if they have moved. This joint carries the bulk of the load for the sidecar. I believe I saw a similar connection set up on one of your first pictures, and you had it on the front lower mount.
    #80