Martin's VTR 1000 Adventure Sidecar Build

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by m_cliffhanger, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. High Octane

    High Octane Long timer

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    I think your right leg is going to get hot.
    #81
  2. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    I already have hot legs. My left leg is just as hot. :rofl
    Yep, I figure that. Can't judge how much, but maybe I will need to work on some sort of deflector. I've had good experience with ducting the rad on the Seven, so maybe a shallow airbox behind the rad, with a duct on the bottom.
    #82
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  3. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    All the modern liquid cool riders complain about heat. Your too clever for this , turn them 90 degrees, or maybe lay them down reduce windage, a scoop leading air in and another out.

    [​IMG]
    Intake points forward the other back feeding and venting a box thick enough to hold the fan.
    #83
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  4. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Take a lesson from the Britten and exhaust a duct in the low pressure area behind the machine...cooler supercharger!
    #84
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  5. Nudie

    Nudie Rusty not rusty

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    I took the fairings off my VTR and fitted one radiator on the front. There wasn't enough room for a fan but it only ever overheated when I was stopped for more than a few minutes in traffic on a hot day. As soon as I moved off again it would quickly cool down. I'd reckon with a fan you wouldn't have any problem with just one of the original radiators in the position you've got them.
    #85
  6. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Thanks for the input, guys. Good ideas. :clap
    Dave, my noggin sometimes needs a jolt. Haven't thought of it that way. I'll re-mount them in the original location, and see if I can come up with a scoop design.
    RoundOz, I'll study that.
    Nudie, that's good to know. One of my original plans was a traditional radiator mounted up front, but the leading link and subframe took up too much real estate.
    #86
  7. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    If I recall correctly from a magazine article written when the V1000 premiered, and the rest of the worlds designers had to pick their jaws up off the floor, one of his main goals was reduced frontal area. By installing the oil cooler under the seat and using that rear low pressure zone, the size of the system could be cut in half.
    Obviously the design parameters are probably different (racebikes don't do stop and go traffic) but getting heat away from the rider and passenger would be a benefit....and you could have a "winter" mode, for just the opposite effect.
    #87
  8. cog8603

    cog8603 Been here awhile

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    what's the latest?????
    #88
  9. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Well, last I checked, they're still calling for sunny breaks by the weekend. :rofl

    Made a sub frame for the floor, since I do not want to extend the floor all the way to the outer rails. There would be too much carving and fitting; I think it will look cleaner and maintains that "exo" look. The front hoop bracing is done and the upper frame connections are next.
    The rads are back in their original location, and I think that I have figured out a couple of ducts to direct the air.
    Been busy on other fronts as well. Made/modified a new muffler for the Seven. I wasn't happy with the Supertrapp, as it was still way too loud. A friend gave me a nice can from a R6, but it was bent the wrong way. Eventually I carved into it, and although no big surprise, all the tubing was Titanium. Took me a while to figure out how to weld it back together, but with a lot of patience I got it to work. I stich welded it 3/8 in at a time, keeping the weld in the argon all the time; took me nearly an hour to weld all around, but it worked and seems to be holding nicely. Best part is the final product; a much more pleasant sound, and a better responding engine. I'll be the first to admit, the boys at Yamaha know their stuff. IMG_8487.jpg IMG_8489.jpg IMG_8474.jpg IMG_8479.jpg
    #89
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  10. Honda-50

    Honda-50 Vet Lurker

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    #90
  11. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad World's Foremost Authority

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    I see that you already done the welding, but next time remember that purging "the backside" when welding Ti goes a long way. BTW all of those pretty colors you commonly see on Ti exhaust systems are an indication that there was poor gas coverage and those welds would never pass inspection. A proper Ti weld should be colorless and look the same as the base material.
    #91
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  12. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Honda 50, thanks for the link. That is a nice bike; too bad he didn't go further in his build. I thought about mounting the rad under the seat, and one would fit, but not both. And with the heavier weight and slower speeds, I'd be nervous with just one rad. The ducting will be a bit of a challenge, particularly on the right, where the fan gets in the way, but I think it will be doable. If not, then it's back to the drawing board.

    Strong Bad, that weld was a total fluke. First I thought the outer exhaust pipe was SS, and tried to weld it with SS filler rod, which obviously didn't work too well. After reading up on the Titanium welding techniques (back purging, 40 sec post flow, etc.) I just about gave up and was ready to chuck the piece out. But after taking the grinder to it once more, I found that the section I welded without the SS filler was very strong. So I re-fitted the pieces very carefully, although I had to cut the pipe right near the bend, and then welded it without filler. There is also an inner pipe wrapped in SS wool and fibreglass, which may have helped with the lack of back purging. It was one of those projects, where the shop hours just slip away, and stubbornness and curiosity keep you going. I've probably got six hours into it. :fpalm
    #92
  13. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    So I've been busy fabbing brackets and struts or linkages. I've always been thinking about how to tie the sidecar into the strong points of the VTR. And there are two that I've always wanted to utilize. There is an engine boss that the frame and the slider bolts to. Since it must support the bike as it is pirouetting down the pavement, it should be a pretty good mounting point. As the sidecar frame evolved, the upper rail became a good attachment point for this spot. The bracket bolts through the frame into the boss, with a 10mm bolt. It supports two rod ends, one for the upper rail a-arm, and a second for some triangulation to the bottom of the sidecar frame.
    The second strong point is the swingarm mount. The load is carried by the engine case, and two cups (for a better word) act as outer washers for the swingarm bolt. These cups also are the mounting point for the foot pegs, shifter, rear brake pedal etc. Since I have to re-do the whole foot peg arrangement, I figured to make them from steel, and then add a bracket for the rear most link. This will provide for most of the for-aft loading, bolted solidly to the engine case.

    IMG_8497.jpg IMG_8498.jpg IMG_8499.jpg IMG_8500.jpg
    #93
  14. brstar

    brstar Been here awhile

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    Not going to have much flex between chair and bike here by the looks.
    #94
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  15. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    I thought he was channeling Clancy ! :clap
    #95
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  16. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Well, it has been a busy summer, but now the kids are back in school, and a more normal schedule is back. I've been checking in and keeping up with posts, but haven't had much time to post.
    Some work has progressed; I have re-visited the radiator ducting issue, and have finally completed that. A lot of fiddling and fitting, especially on the fan side, since there is very little room.
    I've also started on the foot peg mounting bosses, and promptly broke my lathe on a facing cut. The tool dug in and the subsequent stall broke a gear. So I had to spend some time to rebuild and modify the lathe. By adding a carriage lock, I've got now the added rigidity necessary. It never ends. :baldy IMG_8599.jpg IMG_8602.jpg IMG_8604.jpg IMG_8503.jpg
    #96
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  17. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

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    A lot of nice work. Being water cooled not sure if the bike has an oil cooler, but that would also help. The rad in the nose of the car would still make a good looking rig and be out in clean air, not like the rad's on the bike. You could slant the nose and lay it down a bit, with ducting out the sides or to the area under the sidecar for the rad exhaust. This would also transfer some of the weight to the car. As you've done in your build, more than one way to skin the cat. Excellent stuff.
    #97
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  18. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Thanks, cycleman2.
    I had really wanted to mount the rad in the sidecar nose, for the reasons you stated. But I couldn't come up with a good way to package it. I hope this arrangement will provide enough cooling. There will be an oil cooler, larger than the original one. That's what I did on my 7 build, and I have found that it is very effective. There, I'm using the stock R1 radiator, and an automotive oil cooler, both properly ducted, and have no cooling concerns.

    IMG_7722.jpg

    IMG_7593.jpg
    #98
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  19. L_Bomb

    L_Bomb Strewth and blimey

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    I would not use rose joints anywhere structural like on your leading link and sidecar attachment points. They will fail over time at the threads due to fatigue.

    I bought a trials bike sidecar with rose joints on the sidecar swingarm pivot. The previous owner had several fail and replaced them periodically as preventative maintenance. I decided to weld up the threads to eliminate the failure point but they ended up tearing apart at the grease nipple instead. I have since moved to a needle roller bearing setup.

    The sidecar attachment points can be simple bolted connections as there is no movement in operation.
    #99
  20. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Like any mechanical fastener, rose or heim joints come in various levels of quality.
    Connection angles mostly need to be adjustable in two planes in order to allow for setting Toe-in and lean angle. This doesn't have to be with rose joints , but provided they are sized and designed for the purpose, the lack of movement once adjustment has been done should give them a long service life.
    You could attach with bolted joints, provided you nail the toe-in and lean angles first time.
    davebig likes this.